politicians. right, senator? all right. very good. not not. >> all. >> all right. thanks. good to have you on, mark. that's what. >> they are. let's take a final check in on the markets right now. you'll see the dow futures up by about 100 points right now nasdaq futures up by about 50. the s&p futures up by 14. right now. oil prices if you take a look or wait look at treasuries really quickly. treasury prices. treasury yields are up slightly. the wti right now is up by about one and a quarter. i don't know where treasury yields are. i thought this was treasuries when i looked at the move. yeah yields are still down. so for the ten year 434. all right folks we will be back here tomorrow with big jobs report on that day. make sure you join us then. right now it's time for squawk on the street. >> good thursday morning. welcome to squawk on the street i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer. david faber is back at post nine of the new york stock exchange. premarket adds to some gains as chinese state media

says the president and xi hold a phone call. germany's chancellor visits the white house today. ecb cuts rates jobless claims highest since october. our roadmap begins with those china talks. the president reportedly holding this call with xi this morning. plus, elon musk. >> is ramping up his attacks on president trump's tax plan, urging lawmakers to kill the bill and amazon reportedly preparing to test humanoid robots. they would deliver packages and that could eventually, of course, take the jobs away from those who currently deliver those packages. >> let's get right to the latest on trade. it's a busy one. and of course, the last few minutes. xinhua, the state news agency in china, says that the president and she reportedly held a call this morning. that's all we know for now. >> look, i think that one of the things that's got to be on the agenda is that china is short shipping. it's a term they use the rare earth magnets, the metals, and it's starting to close our factories. they're not doing it, by the way, to germans or the japanese are targeting

us. this is obviously very important because these affect not just evs, but motors, speakers, sensors. so i think that maybe push is coming to shove here. david. yeah, maybe we're finally realizing that we have some cards. we don't have all the cards. >> no, no, i mean, we should say this call comes in the backdrop of what was frustration expressed by the trump administration in terms of the progress of the talks after the so-called agreement, almost, that they had reached in terms of a significant de-escalation on both sides, but most significantly on the us side, down from 145% tariffs to 30%. but to your point, part of that agreement, or at least the agreement to reach an agreement, was to restart the shipment of these rare earth metals, the magnets, which are so important to so many things. and we just mentioned robots with amazon, obviously, but also very important in making automobiles. and then on the other side, and

this is other reporting, not our not mine, certainly, but apparently frustration on the chinese and something we talk about all the time, which is the continued inability to access chips that are made by the likes of nvidia. >> right? i mean, i started last night's show called with this note, which just said, all right, what do we really have? we have a gas turbines. they've bought more than 200 of them. we have boeing. but you can't slot a boeing because they're busy till 2030. and we have nvidia which is ready to go now. we know that there was a white house source that said nvidia is out. we're not going to let them have even what what biden had. but we're also holding back ethane. but i think that there are other sources saying there are no sources other than nvidia for nvidia. so we have that. they have magnets. i can't believe that there can't be some sort of deal made. >> yeah, you did, but you are. you are acknowledging sort of the difficulties for us and for

the europeans. by the way, there's some german auto parts suppliers this morning saying, hey, this is getting critical on the magnet side. >> my understanding from a major auto company in this country is that they're getting more of germany, and japan are getting more. that could be sour grapes, but i would say that maybe we didn't think this through as much when we decided to put our, our tariffs on. >> yeah, it's a different china than it was during the first administration in terms of their willingness and ability to potentially fight back, so to speak. it's a different set of negotiators on behalf of xi. so that is all the backdrop to a call that apparently took place, the readout on which carl, we have nothing as of yet. >> correct. i mean, this is this is rank speculation. i do know what's happening. i do know that we have look, we got factories closing down. it's not talked about. it's happening. i don't know why it's not talked about. maybe because they're not researching it, but we have

factories closing down right now. >> yeah. you're probably hearing from the auto guys, right? >> yeah. i mean my god, they're like, is anyone listening? do you know we have this now? i think that in the end, i don't know how the president plays his checkers chess game. i mean, there's a lot of people who feel that the chinese play chess because they, you know, when you got nothing, you got nothing to lose. >> so are you a buyer of this bullish notion that stocks are doing well because they figure china won this round. and best and the president will settle for a lower tariff rate than we think. >> no i can't do that because that would be such a that would regard the president as playing that that acronym that we've been using that i'm not going to use because it seems pretty insulting. and i'm trying to get away from the insults. >> i mean, it's everywhere else. >> but i want to try to get away from the insults because then you get into the stuff about tardy paypal. i don't want to do any of those, okay? i once said something in jest about the speaker of the house, who i would candidly, i was friendly

with. >> do we have to go back. >> to that? no, no, i'm just saying i'm not going to adopt. i'm not going to mention any of these because i'm not going to dignify them. >> i'm glad to hear that. >> i'm not going to dignify. okay. >> but others that will last for about five minutes. i think once we're in the ten minute part of the show, you think. >> partner. >> you're well. >> thank you. back, sunshine. >> by the way, the statement out of xinhua. president xi jinping is on a phone call initiated by us president donald. >> there you go. >> now, the chinese are. >> do we read anything into it that it came from the chinese side, even the alert of the call itself? >> well, i like how you know nothing. >> and you speculate because that's. really that. >> you had to come back and me already. >> yeah. well, because you gave me five minutes, i think i got to throw in a ride post. >> meanwhile, mers from germany is going to visit the white house today. this will be obviously their their side of the talks will be a topic. canada yesterday. doug ford wants to double their steel tariffs. right. we'll see what carney says. >> about that brown-forman quarter. yes they got a you got to sell everything i. >> mean everything related.

>> to well no i'm just no no i'm saying that your brown-forman has to sell everything everywhere because those numbers were horrible. and i'm just indicative of brown-forman may actually be the metaphor for this moment. we don't like things that make us fat. tiff very easily because it's so well known. it may be. it may be at the crux, david, of what we're seeing. >> well, i'm just happy you brought it back to a trade. there is brown-forman. yeah. that's not good. >> no, it's actually. >> down 8%. >> i mean, look, this is i look at these situations and i think they never really cut price. we are in a moment where rfk jr is, is championing a bill in texas which would put on our some of our foods that it's not fit for human consumption. and we're all ignoring this stuff. we're ignoring. i mean, what a skull and bones on on doritos. david, what are we doing? >> there's a lot of things that are being ignored right now, by the way, to what we're going to

discuss next. i would argue as well to the potential oncoming impact of ai in the workplace and what that really is going to mean for our society. i think that's something that perhaps we can no longer ignore. but is existential. >> dirty, dull, dangerous, the 3d, she doesn't know them. dirty, dull, dangerous. that's what jensen has said. the machine these machines are going to do. >> i talk about ai and i'm thinking about people who code, people who write ad copy, people. >> who create lawyers, engineers, lawyers, accountants. >> he talks about robots and factories. >> i think it's i think it's a barbell. >> i don't know what you're doing. what are you. why do you go there? >> you're supposed to say, listen, because of nvidia, we're wiping out these. who wants to do that? you want why do you keep. >> going to that other place when i'm not talking about that. >> the whole time you're away, i didn't do it. >> it's true. actually, jim's pointing to news of layoffs, as companies do look to streamline in this economic environment. today it's procter announcing it will cut 7000 jobs. that's about

15% of its global non-manufacturing workforce over the next two years, part of a new restructuring program. meantime, citi today says it plans to cut around 3500 tech jobs in china before the start of q4. jim, we've already talked about mckinsey and booz allen and chevron and microsoft and walmart starting a. >> little bit, warner brothers discovery, a little bit nothing. you know. >> disney a little bit. >> have you read the story which just says, we have people who we do not need anymore because chatgpt has made it so that they don't have to do it. >> i ask every ceo i talk to at this point and i get different answers right? some, i think, are more willing to be straightforward than others. you know that, yes, but it does. it varies. and yes, many will admit, oh yeah, i'm never i'm never growing my employment again. i by the way, i had one ceo say one day i think i will be replaced, like i will do a better job than i do at making decisions. >> what was that? how was that? ceos comp numbers year over

year? >> they were pretty good. and by the way, the stock of that company has done extremely well up. >> until netflix fires everybody. i'm done. that's the single best performing. >> but then you've got. >> we have we have charts of who's doing well. we can actually. >> sundar pichai who runs alphabet, obviously you saw that company said recently, i expect we'll grow from our current engineering phase even into next year because it allows us to do more. he thinks ai is going to make engineers more productive, eliminate tedious tasks and things of that nature, but not really impact overall. >> no, but what we need to hear is a company is struggling and it decides, you know what? these robots are cheaper than humans. and then we see the beginning. we also need to see who graduates from school and gets a job. no one is willing to tell me about who's cut back in hiring. >> do you think that's what amazon is thinking on this? these tests of delivery robots? >> i think amazon is thinking about anything that gets it to you cheaper. i think that they feel like, can we have to get it

to be like india? i mean, they're they're radical in what they want to do. and that's why i think that the walgreens deal got to be careful what walgreens does. this stuff is aimed at the companies that you used to go brick and mortar. >> oh, i see you're saying amazon's continued ascent in some ways is a threat. although again, right. you want to reward your shareholders. you've got to continue to try to be more and more efficient. so you're going to continue to cut employees that can be replaced by ai or by robots. >> well, look. >> when you by the way, we've got a lot of drivers we talked about this years ago. it hasn't happened. but we may be a lot closer now in terms of starting to think people who drive for a living may not have that long a future. >> i don't think that's wrong. look, i was looking at gtc, the nvidia lovefest, and there was a robot there that was picking up packages. and i was talking with jensen jensen's person on this and just said, look, that that robot doesn't need health care. that robot can have a box full

in his head, and that robot comes up and just comes right back. and that's kind of where we are. i mean, people are expensive, and i think people don't realize that away from this, that if you can cut out the expense of people, numbers go higher. >> they do. so you're rewarding shareholders, but you're meanwhile going to have an unemployment crisis in this country. it's a possibility one day or no. >> they can't find worker stephen. they can't find workers that do these jobs during the night shift at at a price that doesn't ruin the. you want to. >> just thread that needle, don't you? you just want to thread it perfectly? >> you betcha. >> yeah. it's nothing bad's going to happen. and i hope you're right. >> our jobs are safe. it's the it's the manufacturing workers that are in trouble. >> well, we'll get if reddit is suing anthropic. yeah. because anthropic has is stealing from reddit i mean well and i'm saying that anybody can do anything right now like you can program. let's say i just program you as the new york times. i program you as the wall street journal.

>> okay? we talked to each other. >> right. but why do i need you? if i can program you? >> you don't, you don't. >> david. yesterday, i did my first trial of you, and you got. you did great. >> i did well. >> yeah, you did really well. you never disagreed with me. you smiled at me the whole time. people thought the whole time it was you i had. you were million tokens. i designed you on sunday. that was when jensen designed me. and, like, why did you need me for? >> you're right. listen. vo three, the latest thing from google. recreate all of us. but. or some version of us three guys sitting at a desk talking about stocks. >> look, it is going to happen. we will be needed. i keep hearing that we will be needed, that because you need creativity. but when you sit down with mark zuckerberg, mark zuckerberg stuff, if you're an advertising agency, i think you're thinking about, holy cow, where's don draper now? and he's at friends and neighbors.

>> how about i'm thinking of you like a firm? what about people who used to judge mortgage risk or write credit quality? >> they're just. >> yeah, that's that's over. >> yeah. they remind me of buggies. you know, there's the wright brothers. now look at what are we going to have two years from now. why do we need those people now? i'm not i love those people. i have a lot of friends. >> so now you've come around. it took. it took five minutes, but you got there. >> but my job is to tell the truth. i don't know what your job is. >> really. >> that was just such a mean thing. i take. >> that back that. >> that was just so rude. that was horrible. i mean, listen, wait. david, what am i supposed to call david? there, there. i got around. >> to it. >> take a look at the pre market. we are adding to some gains of course on the heels of that news about the phone call between the president and she yields are a pretty helpful backdrop this morning 30 year backdrop this morning 30 year 45. that's a one month comcast business doesn't just power businesses. we help turn them into... ...logistics-mastering...

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with its magical ai powers. it not only creates it, it slaps that sweet thing everywhere. mmm. ♪♪ never miss a moment. >> i think tariff anxiety comes from there's been so much change in the last few months that it doesn't matter where you are in the world, that these ceos all have a little bit of tariff anxiety. >> that's our future. to be able to turn these agents, which are essentially workforce robots, information robots and humanoid robots, you know, physical

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criticism of the president's tax and spending cuts bill with multiple posts on x, including one urging people to, quote, call your senator, call your congressman. bankrupting america is not okay. kill the bill. jimmy had the kill bill uma thurman meme yesterday. johnson is on the tapes this morning saying that he talked to musk and that he's apparently, quote, dug in. >> yeah. look, i think that there are a lot of people who feel, well, you know what he does. he's over his head. they can't really do it. he can't do anything. david, you were down there. i don't think he thinks that he can't do anything. so if he tries to do it, there's going to be an impact. >> yeah. listen, elon musk is not afraid of challenges, that's for sure. we know that he and i did not discuss this during our either on or off air conversations. we're much more focused obviously in a couple of weeks back on on business to a large extent, although we did talk a lot about doge and the failure there, frankly. but i think musk is truly or was and

is truly concerned that the us is heading for a fiscal cliff. yeah, and that our deficits and debt are simply too large and going to get to a point at which we find ourselves in an emergency situation. i think that concern is real of his. i do also believe, and this is other reporting as well, that, you know, he probably was not happy to watch the guy he thought was going to run nasa get booted. jared isaacman at the last moment. >> how about a provision to help like, you know, these these sales for ev which are flagging. >> right. well that was part of the in the bill of course. but that's been in there for quite some time. the elimination of the, of the incentives for buying evs. >> that's the read behind the journal piece today. yeah. the isaacman nom infuriated musk, who complained over the weekend that he had donated hundreds of millions of dollars to help get trump elected. >> and there's isaacman, who's been on our air a number of

times, obviously has gone up. and yeah, you know. spacex with. >> he's quite funny. i sit next to him. >> he's a successful entrepreneur. >> at a time thing. >> honoring the question now really is, does this continue to escalate musk and trump, and what will it mean for the bill itself. because, you know. >> by the way, tesla's down 7% over five days in a pretty good tape. >> look, i think the china, the sales from china, you know, 40% of stuff's made in china is bad. >> yeah, i mean, it's made in china for china and for the surrounding region. obviously, competition from byd, which we talked about, although he doesn't even want to acknowledge when i asked him about it, he's like, i don't even know what those numbers are, which seems a bit odd. yeah. >> the fellowship for that we just mentioned, i was sitting next to him for a thing. i said yes, what i was doing for the weekend. i said, i don't know, i'm going to go fishing. he said, i'm going to go out in space. i said, god love you. you know? i mean, like, hey, better

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to talk a little? five below in the mad dash. >> shorting going on in the market. some of it is paying off. you were short dollar tree. it really, really worked. a lot of people were short five below because they know they source. you know they source a gigantic amount from china, almost like actually 60% going to 50%. and yet they pulled it off. they made the numbers. they actually got it up. and i've got to tell you, it's wizardry. i don't know how they did it. when i read through the conference call, i still don't know how they did it. but look at this short squeeze. it's incredible. and i've got to hand it to these guys because this thing, when they changed the management was here. they had a cfo who left last night. and typically, david, you don't want to see if it leaves people look askance. >> yeah. they got a concern. yeah. >> no one. >> cares. okay. hey, listen. hear the applause. starting to build already for the ipo circle. we hadn't mentioned that. of course. 34 million

shares, a lot of them by selling shareholders. number two, when it comes to stablecoins, we'll be talking a bit about circle. of course we'll be talking a lot about more more about the broader markets as well. and don't forget you can catch us anytime, anywhere by listening to and following the squawk on the street opening bell podcast. >> the cnbc disruptor 50 list revealed. meet the innovative company shattering boundaries, shaking up industries and changing the game for good. special coverage begins ♪ (vo) let's talk about what we can do - when we do it together. we bring the sharpest minds in tech to your team so you can put something amazing into the world. we are passionate about your industry so you can walk into any room with every advantage. we're with you. sleeves rolled up. start to finish. so you can drive your company to the leading edge. at pwc, we build for what's next so you can get there now.

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tomorrow. nuveen invest, like the future, is watching. >> the opening bell is brought to you by nuveen. invest like the future is watching. >> circle is set to go public today here at the big board under the ticker symbol crc, l. the stablecoin issuer pricing the ipo at 31 a share. it's above the range, giving it a valuation of about $6.8 billion. the co-founder, chairman and ceo, jeremy allaire, will be joining us on money movers at 1145 eastern time. a lot of reports about oversubscription on this one, david. >> yeah, i'm hearing it 20 times. you never want to read into that. but it does appear that that the stock will be up from where it was priced and up significantly potentially. also, i'm hearing about some traffic on the reddit boards. we know what that can sometimes mean as well for names like this. obviously one of the largest stablecoins out there after tether number two, you know, they make most of their money on the reserves that they getting interest on the reserves they

hold. they got, what, at least 60 billion or so. but the idea is that you expand well beyond that. as digital finance becomes even bigger and bigger, that obviously embraced by the current administration. and, you know, you move into payments. they have a euro backed stablecoin, a lot of different things. conceivably, if you're a believer here that they could get. >> people behind this. this is not some outfit that doesn't have anybody that we've known that has some name brand people, including some people we're looking at. >> i'm looking at them right here. i know some of the some of the great investors that we have, including jim breyer, comes on our air. look at him. he's seen a number of old friends in the crowd here, a number of old. >> friends look at this. and i say, this is the modern day. there will be a moment in time where we realize, you know, what circle is should be included within the conversation of where the repositories of wealth. >> and they have done, you know, they have checked all the boxes when it comes to regulation in every way. they've been around a long time. boston based company. interesting. that's where jeremy allaire started it. but this is

not a new company. and in fact, they've already got a level of profitability, hence why you have a lot of selling stockholders. it's not as important that they raise money with the including. >> the ceo as part of the selling shareholders. >> let's get the opening bell here and the cnbc realtime exchange at the big board. as we said, it is circle stablecoin issuer. and we'll talk to jeremy allaire, as we said on money movers at the nasdaq, it's care.com and online marketplace to find family care. >> we have to start thinking. >> it is great, even though we think it's antithetical to traditional look. we have we have coinbase and we have robinhood, and now we have circle. and that's how i want to look at it. >> we got the senate working on the bill. we've got coin in the s&p. we've got jp morgan allowing clients to trade without custody. >> being talked about being in the s&p. and that stock went up

up up. david. yes. we have a new group of companies that we have to start respecting as if they are a major broker, because this valuation could be dramatically higher, much higher. >> yeah, it. >> could be if they obviously execute on a lot of their long term goals in terms of payments. and you bring down, by the way, the interchange costs of so many things, when you think about how money and or whatever stands for money is exchanged across borders. i think that's the larger hope here. as you move into this new economy, to your to your point. >> look, i think that we also have to remember the president in first term. it wasn't crypto that wasn't really a focus. this is the favored asset by our president. he's more concerned, i think, about this price than we ever than we talk. >> about well there's djt bitcoin etf registration news today too. >> right i mean djt did that big convert offering. obviously they bought a bunch of bitcoin or have plans to do so. you've got

don jr along with a number of others who are also involved. the wyckoff's and obviously world liberty financial there. it's everywhere right. >> do you think we should pivot and discuss it more as as a part of the conversation? >> do i think yes, probably. >> i do. like for instance, winnebago did a pre announcement today. normally i would say okay well listen that's motorhomes. it's bad. then i look at the valuation of what we're going to see here. and i say why am i focused on a small company when i have circle, which i have to put in the same conversation as, as several other? let's make it a regional bank right now. i mean, i look at ussb and i say to myself, that's a big bat first horizon. well, i mean, shouldn't this be in the same conversation? right? like how, you know, you say how circle doing today? >> well, i think we still want to monitor economic activity which which winnebago is a picture of. >> i absolutely do, but i am saying that as part of what i look at, i look at robinhood and

figure out whether it's a meme stock. i always spend, i always look at coinbase. i will now always look at circle. that's just something i'm going to add to my internal lexicon, right? >> jim, we made four attempts at 5990 yesterday, couldn't get over the hill and were a few points removed this morning. but what do you think it's going to take? >> it's going to take apple to be recognized as some company that won't lose that much in share because of epic. and we do have a pretty good morgan stanley piece about how the service revenue is doing. we need something which says that nvidia may be part of a conversation with rare earth minerals. we need amazon to be able to fulfill the robot news that david talked about. we don't need to worry about google and meta. those are already flying, but those are what you need to see. and let me throw in that we need to see. i was surprised wells fargo not up yesterday. >> it was not up yesterday afternoon because it. was up after hours when they got the asset cap, the news about the asset cap being removed. >> but the bank the banks were sluggish. you need to see

financials. financials have been okay. also look at that down 57th. >> biggest bond rally since february. yeah right. >> well look i just thought we would have it because interest rates have dropped dramatically when they're going to 4.55 we're all over them. but when we're seeing numbers in the jobless claims yesterday adp the president is going to heckle the fed chief like you wouldn't believe. the whole weekend is going to be miserable for the fed chief. >> well we got to get a number tomorrow and we'll see what. >> that looks. well we get a week number. and i think that the heckling, the heckling is just going to be furious. >> you have any expectation for tomorrow's number? i know we got the adp. >> adp has not been a good predictor. >> no it hasn't been. >> but goldman did cut their number yesterday to 110. they were at 126. >> we spent the first seven minutes of the show talking about layoffs. and the layoffs are from very visible companies. i who knows what's happening. no, no small meetings. how's business. we had paychex and it looks like that that's not being

heard. >> yeah. and they specifically called out leisure hospitality as their weak spot. i don't know if you saw a challenger layoffs this morning but the challenger services layoffs chart i mean we're halfway to month. we saw during covid. >> well look we know that marriott had a good quarter and we know that royal caribbean had good clothes. i'm not so sure about viking questionable norwegian cruise. some people feel not that good. right david. the travel. we don't hear about the airlines blowing out the numbers anymore. >> no, we don't i mean we got a number of concerning narratives from the airlines a bit earlier on in the year. i don't know if that's been it's very difficult picture, i think when it comes to the economy, jim, in terms of really understanding how whether we're weak at all and how weak. >> i'm so glad you said that, because i was listening to vaso sauna on, you know, he was on the dollar general corporation. dollar general is really huge.

and he's saying, look, 60% of the people feel incredibly strapped. they feel worse than they did last year. the high income and middle income, which we first saw going to costco and costco, numbers were okay, enough with the not great numbers. they're now going to dollar general. now, when you go to dollar general, that's not macy's. it isn't macy's now very small i know. but i'm saying it's a department store of sorts. and when you go there it's very catch as catch. can you don't know what they're going to have. that's why i want to compare it to costco. costco has a limited number of shop keeping units. so does dollar general. but wow, dollar gen's numbers were spectacular. >> yeah, costco down comps were five five last month was seven one. shares. giving some back this morning. >> yeah i mean i heard people say oh jim us was only 4.1. you got to back out gasoline there. but go. selling costco has been

a sucker's play for since it came up. >> yeah no doubt about that. when did it come public? >> 84. >> is it that. >> i shouldn't say? i'm not sure. i know that. you were. able to get. >> a chart since going public with 85. you were right. basically. how do we not 20 years? >> how can we not have mentioned mongodb enterprise? >> i don't know, i. know that blew out the numbers. mdb shares are up. they were up a lot. i haven't looked in. >> enterprise software has just been a minefield. no one wants to trade that. and david, you've been laid. you haven't, you know, laid into salesforce. >> i haven't should i would you like me to. >> no. it's just so you know it's something you know, i like i figured it's a good thing to take a cheap shot. >> at me. no, i don't i don't take cheap shots at you. i take them straight ahead. oh straight ahead okay. >> you bury the hatchet in front of me. >> i tried to, you know that. come on. >> well, i think it's salesforce is notably notably poorly acted.

>> alphabet shares are not acting poorly as we take a look at salesforce. despite this note from wells fargo. i'm sure you guys saw this chatgpt will take $100 billion of search market by 2030. and they see google's share of the search advertising falling to 60% from the current domination. of course at 90%. >> no i read it and i also read that look that google is going to be hurt in a number of ways. there was a survey that you see that ubs survey. it was evidence lab. >> i didn't see the evidence lab. yeah. this note thinks, you know, openai is going to begin integrating sponsored ads into chatgpt within the next 12 months and monetize, obviously, what's a very significant and growing user base. >> no, it's very significant. hey, by the way, crowdstrike, i had i had george on george kurtz and there was a big the big thing of yesterday was not was half as numbers. then half was this doj investigation. i thought he was very forward in

talking about a cooperative. the transaction had been audited over and over again, but it's going to be with us for some time. i just hope the narrative isn't d.o.j. d.o.j. d.o.j. because you don't get a call from doj every quarter saying, hey, here's what you ought to say. it doesn't work like that. i thought george had a very, very strong number. i think that the people were selling it, realized that the stock has just been a band sheet. hey, by the way, have you did you see the uber board change with nikesh arora? no, from palo alto. >> no i didn't. >> yeah, he's on the board. >> he's on added to the uber board. yeah. >> uber has had some executive shuffling. yes. delivery side starbucks. we're bringing back the coo role jim. >> geez. you know i've got to tell you i think that people continue to underestimate the things right now that brian niccol is doing that last that absolutely that last turndown was just such. i went to 73. well, that was a bad sale. let's get those people back. he can

bring back some really, really good people. i do think that brian, he's a winner. >> we have. >> a winner. >> we haven't done pvh cutting the full year guide. >> i felt bad about that. they can't mitigate. they couldn't get it done in time. they have a huge you know david they had a huge tariff year pvh huge. >> you just can't get away from it. >> no i mean look most of the companies i talk to it starts out by saying okay, let me tell you how how much we were able to mitigate the word mitigate and the word dynamic. those are the two words that describe this moment. it's a dynamic. dynamic means we don't know what the hell we're doing and we're getting crushed. and mitigate means the tariffs are unbelievably bad. but we don't want to say anything because we're afraid the president to say something about us. that's that's if you actually if you put those through anthropic, you might get that. >> well, we did get the new york fed survey yesterday, which finds, jim, that about 75% of companies have already passed through some price increases.

that complicates the picture you were just talking about on the fed. >> well. >> look. >> i mean, kimberly has had to do that. we didn't even talk about kimberly move where they they offloaded. well, i shouldn't say offloaded because i really like that business. >> their international tissue business. >> yeah. they sold what? kleenex, cottonelle, scott and cottonelle. they get 1.7 billion to 1.7 billion in cash to suzano giant brazilian company. david. yeah, they take 50. they get 49%. and the. oh they didn't expect that stock will be down that much. holy cow. >> what? kimberly. yeah. down on this deal. >> wow. >> why are you surprised? >> well, because you're getting rid of low margin, low multiple kinds of product. right. and that should leave you with a higher price to earnings. multiple, perhaps near procter and gamble. they're very, very separate right now. that is very interesting. it was not the kind of business that had a good turn

because because eucalyptus which is what they suzano presented provided with them. yeah. crazy pricing. >> well i wonder if there also is a bit of a halo from the procter news today too. right. >> that could be. look i think i think michael is doing a fantastic job. i, i am shocked by the way this consumer packaged goods group now that is a group we don't talk about enough because. oh my. you have. >> are they. yeah. what are they. are they trying to transform the company. it can't be. they're trying to change the obviously the underlying mix. >> yes. but they're trying to. >> do a deal at some point. not just selling but buying. >> i debate that i think they do. you do i think they need. yes. because i think this group needs to consolidate. >> yeah. >> look remember they bought scott paper towel. that was not michael shoes. >> any sense as to what they might want to move into or. no. >> you know that's a that's a. >> hard one because i mean you always get people dreamers out there. imagine whatever company they own is going to be, you know, potentially a takeover target of the likes of a kimberly or a p&g. >> you want to get out of

anything that's commodity and you get into proprietary. and they've got a series of great proprietary band. i think that's i think that's a wrong reaction. i think the reaction should be, let's raise the volume, not lower it, you know? >> right. you want to be branded rather than just. >> exactly. yeah. you want to be branded. i find right now the challenge in food, the challenge in consumer is just breathtaking. i you know, we didn't even talk about ken. but i mean, ken view is a good company. it's great brands. you know, it's band-aids and it's. >> what did you make of that fall that had the other day after the presentation from mangan? >> i know it was it's you know, that was surprising. >> ken. you you've got a you know, you've got jeff smith on the board. yes. you've got tom's capital and you've got dan loeb at third point, both significant share owners who are my understanding certainly pressuring the company, potentially even pushing for management change at the very top. remember the cfo already got traded out. and you've also got this lingering hope. back to

the conversation we were just having around jmb, that somehow it will be a part of consolidation, perhaps on the wish list of the likes of p&g, or even if kimberly-clark were to try and change things up dramatically. >> well, you'd have to see if the this new ftc would allow that. >> who knows, who knows? >> nvidia versus nvidia. >> there you go. >> right. which would you rather be in? nvidia has like a three multiple and nvidia well the multiples actually shrunk there. >> yeah i mean it can be i think the next question will be do they is long gone. gone. >> we all expect these really. we all expect the can view would merge. you know david there's halion there's ken view. >> halion seems to have done better. >> than ken. >> putting on better. it's putting up better numbers. >> i think halion. >> in terms of. >> metrics, know how to differentiate, make the product more exciting, i like them. that's probably one of the only consumer product companies that actually is getting it right right now. right. you know, look, look, procter has done a

series of right things and nobody cares. it's kind of hangs there down two down two and a half doing the right thing laying off people. and it's down to a half. what is that. >> what we do know that the share of the market that is owned, that is owned defensives is pretty low relative to history. people are not set up for a defensive crouch. >> no. and people would rather own anything. enterprise software. that's good. look, look, we have a lot of areas where if you look at us versus europe gs we're doing badly. >> i don't know if you saw it. we talked about fink's op ed in the ft yesterday. but one of the things he says, jim, is that europe is removing critical barriers to capital and faster permitting. >> how about their savings rate in europe is three times our savings rate, which i thought was very, very telling. david, you removed some of the cross-border. if you remove if you get better governments that are more pro industry. yeah. and

you have this nato budget that is just supercharging europe. it's amazing. >> well, as we know and have said many times, their markets have performed very well this year far better than our own. >> especially when you think about our weakened dollar situation. oh, sorry. no one's speaking. >> on the hopes of, as you say, significant investment. we talked about early in the year with germany in terms of the decisions they've made, although still plenty of questions about the german economy. >> well, germany, they can they can turbocharge that because they took down debt first time. >> yeah. >> but i yeah, i'm kind of bummed that our companies are all stuck in this range and they've got. >> what are they supposed to do jim. they don't know what trade policy is going to be a week from now. >> well no they don't. and but again, i want people to understand when you speak to ceos and i speak to a huge number of ceos, they're they're praying that you won't focus on. >> them, that you won't focus on them. >> yes, because you have doug

mcmillon being called out, tim cook being called out. yes. anyone can be called out. >> well, now the question is, will elon musk be called out in some way? watching tesla shares down another 5.5% right now, given the escalating tensions in what had been a incredibly harmonious relationship that between the president and elon musk. you know, it's funny because many had predicted for quite some time, oh, this thing's not going to end well. and i would continue to ask people, particularly people close to musk, but people who i knew or at least in the orbit, and they would always report back, oh, no, this thing is this is going incredibly well. and they referenced how musk would fly on marine one, not just but marine one, which nobody else does. and i don't know, i got any number of different anecdotes in terms of saying these guys have a special relationship and maybe they do, but right now it's really in question in terms of what musk has been willing to do and criticizing this current bill. >> the beautiful bill looks pretty ugly. do you think you got the right to kill bill

before he did this? say again, do you think you got the rights to kill bill before he did this? >> i don't i don't think he did. no. >> we should check with quentin. and we're a week out from robotaxi. jim, i don't know if there's concerns going in about what they can demonstrate in austin. >> next week. they're going to be awesome. i think it's going to be incredible. >> going to start very small, as we know. so you're really talking about 10 or 12 vehicles at first. >> when you're in san francisco, it's just you always pick the you always pick the waymo. i mean you'd be like crazy to pick the human. there's the waymo. >> what's what's wrong with the human. >> they're more expensive. >> are they. >> more expensive. >> the prices were waymo is very comparable, which surprised me because you'd think that there would be it would be cheaper. >> my staff is. >> very frugal, so some people just prefer not to have a driver. you don't have to talk to anybody. you don't have to, you. >> know, they never listen. you can have private conversations about anything in your life, but i don't have anything in my life, so it didn't really affect me. >> you have everything in your life. you just share it. all

right. here. >> let's get to bonds. this morning. as we pointed out earlier, jobless claims 247, the highest since october. productivity was amiss. down one five. we'll get to kugler at 12 with our sara eisen, parker and schmidt later this afternoon as the dow goes red by 100 points. stay with us. >> thanks. >> the bond report is brought to you by pimco, a global leader in active fixed income. >> at coriant, wealth management begins and ends with you. we believe the more personal the solution, the more powerful the result. we treat your goals as our own. we never lose focus on the life you want to build, and our experienced advisors design

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you think those phone guys will ever figure out how to keep 5g home internet from slowing down during peak hours? their customers have to share a wireless signal with everyone in their area. oooh. -you know, it's kinda like when you bring a really big cake for your birthday, and then there is only a piece left for the birthday girl. well, wish her a happy birthday. happy birthday... -it's... ...to her. -no, it's me. have your cake and eat it, too. don't settle for t-mobile or verizon 5g home internet. get super fast xfinity internet you don't have to share. forty's going to be my year. sale and make your dream office a reality. >> let's get to jim and stop trading. >> many of our viewers may be familiar with stacy rasgon. he's from bernstein. he's a really good analyst. semiconductors. he upgrades texas instruments today. it had been a sell and he makes it a market perform. now, this may actually be indicative of what is working here for some reason. the industrial the

industrial internet of things is going higher. that is so contrary to going into recession. so it's worth thinking about that. there's a lot of stocks that are in industrial and xp too on semi that have been excellent. it's very contrary to what's going on. >> yeah. we mentioned yesterday the positive catalyst watch city call on western digital for example. >> i know very inexpensive stock. these are all contrary to what the chatter that we hear from whether adp whether jobless. and it's worth watching because somebody's out of sync. i just don't know which. >> meanwhile jim what's tonight. >> all right i've got a guy, rick smith. you may know him as somebody who was first tasered, but this is a company that has really changed the way that we have justice on the local level. and i want people to understand that two years ago, the stock was at 170. today it just hit an all time high of $781 billion market value. well, they've revolutionized everything they do, body cam. and believe it or

not, police body cam. >> just the when they were just. >> well, rick smith is just a dynamic terrific guy. one of the best performing stocks of all time. and we never hear about it because we focus on i don't know. what are you focusing on? >> i'm focused on ai. >> we focus on ai. >> i think that's an important thing to be focused on. well. >> i think we should focus on winners periodically. >> okay. oh, there are a lot of winners where. >> we focus on netflix. >> who are the losers? >> who? we focus on netflix all the time. netflix there. >> netflix. you got a problem with netflix? no, i don't i'm going to be questioning the coca-cola company of america. i wanted to get other. >> i have to go. but i do want to say this axon enterprises is worth watching tonight. >> we'll see you tonight with them, jim. mad money, 6 p.m. eastern time. dow down, 152. don't go anywhere. >> this thing is so good for your gut health. i used to have a collagen. i used to have probiotic, a green juice. i

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>> good thursday morning. welcome back to squawk on the street i'm sara eisen with carl quintanilla david faber live at post nine as always from the new york stock exchange. take a look at stocks this morning. we are breaking the win streak under a little pressure. nothing extreme. down a quarter of a percent on the s&p 500. dow's down 142 points. and the nasdaq again tech is outperforming here. it's helping nasdaq down only 2/10 of 1%. word of the trump xi call. not doing much to turn things around. but stocks ran up into it. as for treasuries, take a look at how we're doing today. we've got the big jobs report tomorrow. there's more buying of treasuries. and yields have come down this week four, three, five is your yield on the ten year. we've had some softer economic data which we'll talk about that's leading to lower yields. the two year the rate policy sensitive 13.8 6% today. palantir ceo alex karp joins us in a first on cnbc interview from the sidelines of his company's artificial intelligence platform

conference. as the company pushes back against criticism about collecting data on americans. and the stock sits at record highs. plus broadcom trading at record levels ahead of results tonight. after the close we're going to talk about what's at stake in that report. >> all right. first we have some breaking news. it's from washington. of course the news is that there was a phone call between president trump and china's xi jinping. we learned it from the chinese side. let's get to eamon javers, of course. see what else, if anything, we've learned in the last hour or so since we first heard about the call. eamon. >> david, no confirmation from the white house on this call. and i can tell you that no human being that i can physically get to in the west wing is able to confirm this. they're all saying no updates to offer right now. obviously, you know, we can't just walk in the oval office and check and see who he's on the phone with. so it's possible that that call has happened. as the chinese side has said here, take a look at the chinese statement. it doesn't give us much in terms of guidance on the chinese side. just saying. president xi jinping is on a phone call initiated by us

president donald j. trump. so to parse the nuance there, you know, important potentially, that the chinese are the first out of the gate to confirm the existence of this call and also to say that the call was initiated by president trump. xi jinping, very sensitive to protocol and sort of manners of how things are rolled out. the idea that this is a call that was initiated by the us side, clearly important for the chinese to get into their statement, saying that they're sort of being magnanimous or generous in taking the call from president trump. now, we'll wait to see what the white house has to say about that. and it's not clear whether that call is still ongoing or not, if it has happened at all. my understanding going back years is that calls presidential calls with chinese leaders have been very long in the past because there's often an opening speech that both sides need to make to sort of lay out their position at the top of the call. that's all scripted and needs to be gotten through. and then there's the issue of consecutive

translation back and forth, as each side works through the translation on what each leader has said. so this can be a very long process. so it may be the case that all of that is still ongoing. right now. we just simply don't know from the us side guys. but obviously this has been very closely watched. and the question is not just the existence of a call but the content of a call. can a call between these two leaders move these countries off of the talking points that they've been on for weeks now and actually get to a deal? or are these situations in terms of trade just intractable and that no matter what kind of a call you have, you can't really move the underlying dynamic. we'll wait and see what the white house has to say if they say something later this morning guys. >> eamon some argue this morning that however the lack of confirmation about the call itself is a break from the president's norm and some are attributing this early stock market weakness to the delay of that confirmation. >> yeah i mean that's worth watching right? i mean, so first

of all, we expect to see something on truth social. if the president has something to announce, that's usually where he goes. but is there a reason why the white house is not confirming this call? you know, other than maybe that it's still ongoing and they want to make sure that they have their ducks in a row before they put out a statement and particularly if any, any color, any outcomes from the call, if the call yielded anything. and they can put that in their statement here at the white house, then, you know, you could see a market impact. but if the call was simply a pro forma scripted reading of speeches to each other and hanging up the phone, you know, then that's a sign of sort of general good wishes. but that's kind of it. and the market might walk off on that. >> eamon. appreciate it. we'll be talking very soon i have no doubt eamon javers at the white house this morning. meantime a couple of movers we're watching this morning brown-forman shares are cratering after reporting weakness in their tequila business. they cite a challenging macro environment in mexico, alongside a fall for demand in the jack daniel's

brand. mongodb shares are gaining, though top and bottom line beat. they raised guidance they add to the buyback. and then there's pvh, the parent company of calvin klein and tommy hilfiger. they cut the guidance. sarah knows the company pretty well. and you did catch up with the ceo. >> well i've been following this one carefully because you know david, we've been following this retail turnaround theme. is this one for real? this was the next one that everybody's watching. so they cut the profit guidance but maintained revenue guidance. i did talk to ceo stefan larsson, who hasn't been there that long and is really trying to engineer this turnaround on the cut guidance. what he said was it was it's tougher macro and that was a combination of the tariffs, which unmitigated for pvh at $65 million for the rest of the year. and what he says is weaker consumer confidence which shows up. and so because of that they're more cautious on profit guidance. the other factor here is so they've been trying to turn around the company. but what he told me is they haven't turned around enough of it to offset some of these macro pressures. but there

is evidence and proof points that what he's doing is working. you may have noticed the men's underwear campaign. bad bunny is the front man for it. and for instance, he said that was really strong. it was the most successful launch we've had in years. 25 growth, 25% growth in terms of revenues in that franchise, which is cotton stretch men's underwear, he said. that's repeatable. we can do that. so when you talk about companies that are trying to deliver brand heat to some sleepy brands, tommy and calvin klein, this is what he's trying to do. they also announced yesterday and you know, i'm all over this that they're partnering with cadillac, which is the new f1 team for next year's grid, to be the outfitter. >> bringing together two worlds of yours. unbelievable. >> well, that's what i love about f1 because business is actually all over it. and so i come across this often. but they ditched mercedes and they're going to cadillac. the bottom line is it's indicative of what he's trying to do, which is be more relevant from a marketing standpoint and from a merchandizing standpoint. it's working. but obviously setbacks in the macro economic

environment. and we went into that a little bit more. just in case you're wondering what a company like this is seeing on the macro in the past three months, tougher macro, especially in north america. but also we see china sentiment further weakening. and as a result, it's a tougher outlook, right? especially if you're trying to engineer a turnaround. so this one's really a show me story. >> any other broader takeaways from it then in terms of the overall or is it really very specific to what this company is trying to achieve and the markets it's. >> no, i think the overall takeaway is it's a tougher environment for retail. tariffs are going to cost more. and for this one it's less china, more sort of vietnam and other sourcing, which has an increased 10% tariffs. and consumer sentiment is down. and that's affecting some more than others. and i think it depends on your brand relevance and where you sit. but david, it's something we've been talking about. the underpinning of this entire resilience has been the job market. people have jobs and that's why we're watching really carefully some of this new job

data i mentioned yesterday. the higher the lower quits rate, people not feeling as confident to quit their jobs. this morning we got initial jobless claims. another 8000 americans filed for unemployment claims last week and continuing claims has been elevated. look what's happened since january. really. we have seen this slow and steady creep higher in jobless claims. is it a cause for concern? there's not like mass exodus. but you guys were talking about carl last hour. citigroup procter and gamble disney i mean there are layoffs and there's indications that the jobs market is weakening further, further enough that the fed might have to pay attention. and i don't know, maybe move up its rate cuts or stop being so patient. >> are now pricing in a fully a rate cut in september now. >> right. so it's two for the year. >> meantime the major averages pulling back this morning as we mentioned. still just a few percentage points from those record highs. our next guest calls the markets push higher from the lows. quote the most hated rally. tom lee joins us. fundstrat global advisors head

of research and cio, joins us here at post nine. tom, it's great to have you back. >> great to. >> see you. why do you think it's been so hated? because because april was so sort of near death. >> yeah, i think it's hated because not only was it near death, but it was a dire economic scenario that in people's minds is still unresolved. and yet the markets have rebounded the entire decline and actually now approaching all time highs. so it's been too fast. and i think a lot of people liquidated and then never got back in. >> which part was too fast the rally or the april lows? >> both. it was a waterfall decline. yeah. and we looked back since 1900. of the 12 waterfall declines previously, almost all are v-shaped bounces except for 2022. so i think it aligns with history. but even on my way here, someone stopped me and said that they're just a person who watches. cnbc says they're still bearish. they don't understand why markets have rebounded. i think the majority of people are bearish.

>> people stop you on the street to tell you that they're still bears. >> and then what do you say when they say they're still bearish. do you. say buy right. yeah. what do you tell this person. well you. probably love that. >> this person watches cnbc because he was telling me that he's. >> like many, many people watch cnbc many. yes. yes. we get stopped all the time. yes. but what did you say in response to. i'm still bearish. >> well they they said pes are too high. and i said you know but the ten year can come down because powell thinks there's inflation risk premia in the ten year yield. and if that comes down then pe aren't expensive. >> so i do wonder with that with that as your bull view that rates can come down. so i mentioned the weaker jobless claims today and how that's sort of creeping up. i've sort of been sprinkling in some weakness in the jobs market. do you think that the stock market will be able to withstand that if we really start to see weakness in jobs, because it means powell is going to be closer to cutting? >> yeah, it's a good question. you know, joe weisenthal called it like a slow leak in the economy. and i think it's accurate because there has been

this shock. we know that like for like in the beige book, port volumes took a hit. trucking took a hit. but is that just a blip or is that the start of a downturn. and i think the markets are going to be able to suss it out eventually. but i mean, so many stocks are acting well and the guidance has been better that i think it feels more like a blip. >> you now have the granny shots etf. yeah. this was a sort of a framework that you devised a couple of years ago right. >> yeah, seven years running. it's a core. it was originally a core research portfolio called granny shots. and now it's the etf. >> so what's the construction of it these days? >> it's 34 names still concentrated. and it's focused on the themes like ai, cybersecurity automation, monetary policy easing. we're glad it survived the black swan event this year because that. >> it filled that gap. >> yes. yeah. and outperforming this year by 500 basis points. so it's a good year for granny shots. but i think it's a reminder that we try to get investors focused on long term

themes like ai doesn't really care about tariffs long term and cybersecurity doesn't care about tariffs. and so these are the names that as you get through that as that noise lifts the stocks to recover. >> have you been unnerved by any of the macro data that suggests maybe data center construction, manufacturing is that second derivative is slowing a bit? >> well, the second derivative should eventually slow, but the need for ai and the innovation that's coming really is driving a lot of innovation. and when there's innovation, that's where economic value add comes in. so i think so much of the global gdp the next ten years is coming from ai and cybersecurity. >> and do you think we're seeing some risks to employment on that front already, whether it's amazon robots getting tested or even some of the even the some of the layoffs in financials, let's say. >> yeah, it's like like economists call distributional consequences distributional consequences of ai is that there are phd level ai robots now that can do a lot of jobs pretty well. so i think it is going to

be important for policy to sort of find ways for us to work. >> i also want to. well, yeah, that's. >> a big statement. i know. >> that's not. >> to work. yeah, that's a big i mean, these are sort of societal questions that we have yet to grapple with conceivably. >> i mean, and in theory, one future outcome is the workday is three days. >> well, you hear a lot of people talking about ui. i mean, that comes up even with people. i'm shocked to hear them. people who would, you know, normally from the political spectrum. like what? >> yeah. and maybe the retirement age drops to 40 because there's economic surplus from ai. i mean, it's we really don't know. >> how does the stock market then in that, in that scenario? >> i think i think. >> i know we're talking long term here. >> i think the market will have a different yield curve in that world because of digital settlements, and risk premia will change. so i think multiples of good companies could go very high because we have more confidence of their durability. so the s&p could really do very well.

>> you don't want to give any exact numbers. >> yeah. but you know in a world where where the s&p is providing the labor, shouldn't that be reflected in the stock price. >> so margins will be enormous i expect. >> and they'll capture more top line of the economy. right as well. >> that said, i don't know what we'll all be doing every day. >> but watching cnbc, obviously that's. >> what the agrarian economy guys used to say, right, what are we going to do? we don't plow the fields every day, tom, to come back soon. we'll see you soon. >> see you soon. thanks. >> here's our roadmap for you for the rest of the hour. alex karp on the record. the palantir boss will join us as the stock sits at record highs, and the company faces some new criticism over its data collection practices. >> speaking of new highs, broadcom shares are also trading at new highs. this is the company gets ready to report results. that will be after the bell. we're going to tell you what to look for in that report. >> and then there's nintendo finally launching the latest switch device. but could tariffs put the excitement on some pause. we'll get to that as squawk on the street continues

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sale and make your dream office a reality. >> welcome back. broadcom reports earnings after the bell today. it is trading right around new highs going into that report. joining us now with the setup is the head of technology research at melius. he's ben writes this has a buy 283 price target ben always good to have you. you know you put out new report very recently in hock. we still trust this after you launch coverage similar with a similar title some time back. why do you still trust them and why are you a believer that the

quarter is going to reward that trust? >> well, he's one of the best operators in the business. he really tends to deliver, and i think he's also a great communicator. i think that one of the things that he's done that's pretty interesting is that he's set a targets for a serviceable addressable market that's pretty large. from his largest hyperscaler customers by 2027, 60 to 90 billion. and that's just three customers. and he recently announced that they're up to seven customers. so if he can update any of the long term addressable market from all these additional ai customers, that could be pretty good thing. and i think that this custom silicon trend where certain workloads are being run on companies that use broadcom to design the chips is going to keep going. and hawk's a winner in that category. and we see good things coming. >> yeah. well obviously leverage to the data center and the

continued growth there. what are you going to be listening for on the call to continue to give you the confidence? you have a rather around commentary or specific metrics in terms of the earnings report? >> yeah, there's about three things, david. they have ai revenue that they disclosed last quarter. it was pretty strong at 4.1 billion, about 300 million more than the street. i want to see that. that's above 4.4 billion growing well over maybe 50% hopefully. and that's a really key indicator. and that's their ai semis business. and then we want to hear about whether they won new customers. seven number goes to maybe eight or something like that or how they feel about that. and then just in general, how the long term aspects of the market are going. and i'll say one other thing. they just put out a really great new networking chip called the tomahawk six. so that should really get going in 2026 and drive not the semis portion, but more the networking part of their ai business. so those are

the four things or so we're looking for and hope that that he can talk about. maybe some of the longer term growth prospects. who are their biggest competitors in the categories where they compete. ben, specifically in ai and where are they in terms of leading? >> well, l paper, marvell is trying to get into the custom silicon market, and they have a few customers, but really their competitor is really nvidia, where nvidia has their own software stack and their own chip that that really others adopt. they nvidia has the big developer following. but when companies that have tons of resources, like the big hyperscalers, want to run certain workloads running their own silicon to save money, broadcom is really the only game in town. they marvell is way behind. and these guys really lead. they have a great team. they also just continue to get the wins that everybody wants.

so they they have the best roster of clients right now. so i would really say nvidia and these guys are dividing up the market. >> you know a company obviously that hasn't just grown organically. but anybody who knows it knows it's also grown from enormous deals vmware and now sort of in the in the rear view mirror. any expectation at all that he gets back to deal making. >> well maybe he the free cash flow is really good here and the ebitda margin is insane. it's like in the high 60s. tiktok's done a great job of integrating vmware and vmware. a lot of people just don't even talk about the software business because it's on autopilot. about 40% of revenue, about 50% of profit. they may want to continue to augment that business and infrastructure. software is an area where it's pretty stable. we're a little more cautious on the saas part of the market, but the slower growing infrastructure is harder

to rip out. he does a great job there. so what, you know might come up on the call. on whether he wants to do more acquisitions there. i doubt anything is as big as vmware is out there for the taking, and we have to see about the regulatory environment. but it is a question that likely starts to come up as they continue to execute and throw off all this cash. and remember, hauck bought stock at 1010 billion, announced an incremental $10 billion buyback when the stock was just 154 a few months ago. and he could also do that buyback stock. >> yeah of course people shouldn't forget. of course this is a company that became hostile after qualcomm. it's a long time ago. it didn't happen. but it just shows their their wherewithal or willingness to mix it up ben thank you. >> hey david. great to be here. thanks. >> you're welcome. all right. >> still ahead. big interview. you do not want to miss palantir. is alex karp on the latest with his company's relationship with the us government and also their enterprise relationships as well. plus a major moment for

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affected range of 27 to 28 a share. thanks to higher demand, the company upsized the offering overnight, raising just over $1 billion in a 34 million share offer. it does give circle a total market value of close to $7 billion. and we'll talk to the chairman and ceo, jeremy allaire, on money movers coming up in the next hour. >> all right. let's get to cnbc news update. now savannah now has that for us. savannah. >> hey, david. good morning. germany's foreign minister says chancellor friedrich merz will tell president trump in a white house visit today that it is imperative for russia to begin peace talks with ukraine. the president and the newly elected mayors have spoken several times by phone, and german officials say they have built a decent relationship. the two are also expected to discuss defense spending and trade. the u.s. and israeli backed gaza humanitarian

foundation resumed aid distribution at two of its sites just one day after shutting them down following deadly shootings close to the operations. the foundation, which began to distribute aid last week, has faced criticism from other humanitarian organizations for alleged lack of neutrality, and walmart owned sam's club said today it will remove more than 40 ingredients, including synthetic dyes, from its private label brand member's mark by the end of the year. kellogg, tyson, nestle, pepsi and other companies recently announced similar moves after health and human services secretary robert f kennedy jr laid out plans to remove synthetic food dyes from the u.s. food supply. sara. >> yeah, pennsylvania is joining it in schools happening all over the place. thank you. solana. palantir shares up nearly 75% just this year, trading at all time highs as it faces some questions about collecting data on americans. we're going to talk about that and much more with palantir ceo alex karp

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living. explore the collection at thuma. >> it's been another amazing year so far for palantir, hitting all time highs up 70% in 2025 alone. joining us here first on cnbc is palantir ceo alex karp, alongside one of palantir's new clients, teletracking co-ceo chris johnson. gentlemen, good morning. it's good to have you. >> delighted to be here. >> so, alex, this the teletracking deal that i mean, every almost every day we see a new announcement like this from you. when it comes to enterprise, the commercial business has been on fire. 70% growth in the last quarter from the previous year. can you sustain these kind of levels?

>> well, we have the best partners. i think people recognize we have a very differentiated, very powerful set of products that make ai in the enterprise actually valuable as defined by unit economics. shift and revenue goes up. we basically want to bring our numbers, which are like 71%, 71%, 71% growth in us commercial and a rule of 83 to our partners. and we go around and we, you know, we're famously a company that's more, you know, quiet in the streets, hot in the sheets. we're doing a lot of performance and, you know, doing our thing. and we get, you know, our we get great partners and we build them. but basically we're in the business of taking ontology foundry and transforming businesses so that they have economics that look much more like ours. and what we're really doing is saying to the world, look, all the value

in silicon valley used to be in venture. it's now all in growth. look at this partnership, look at the quality of the partner and see how we roll. >> well, so chris, you are you are the latest partner. tell us a little bit. so your health care operations for hospitals and systems what what exactly do you do and how do you work with a company like palantir to accelerate that kind of growth? >> sure. thanks, sarah. thanks for having thanks for having us. we're announcing the partnership today. and just as background, teletracking was founded in 1991. we're 30 plus year company that's focused on health care operations, and we work with over 150 health systems across the world, eight out of the ten largest in the united states. but i think, to put it in context for you, think of it as similar to air traffic control at an airport that is helping manage flights coming in and out in the traffic and things of that nature. teletracking does the same for patients, staff and equipment and hospital systems. and so with that 35 years of deep domain expertise now, coupled with the work that we're

doing in the partnership with palantir, leveraging foundry and aip, we believe that we can put that into motion even more, even quicker. >> i mean, healthcare. >> systems, higher revenue, better unit economics. you know, ai is kind of a weird revolution. it's just not working for most people. but the people for whom it is working are transforming their business the most, the easiest. and in my view, on the battlefield and on the battlefield of commercial enterprise. way to do this is to platform on top of ontology, platform on top of on top of foundry. bring your domain expertise to the market, change your unit economics and reap the benefits for your investors. and this, by the way, is a very different space. you used to get these kind of unit economics by randomly picking a smart person from stanford, probably a person at stanford that was at palantir. now you do it by investing in scale. we are essentially using our platform to invest in scale and invest

with the best people. and that's where the real returns are. that's where all the capital is going to go. you're going to see pe firms shifting. you're going to see investors shifting. you're going to see the smartest of the smart money has already shifted, even though when they're trying to raise money for their startups, they don't exactly tell you that. but that's what's actually going on. and we're at the center of that universe, which is why we're constantly under attack, mostly by player haters who are technically illiterate, but also by people who don't want the west to win. and we're just here trying to find the best partners in america and just crush it. and that's that's what. >> we're doing. why do you say that ai is not working for most? what do you mean? >> because they basically, i mean in the enterprise context, to make enterprise work, you need something like an ontology. do you need ontology to manage the llms? and if you aren't doing that, you're getting some kind of like chatbot experience, which is certainly could is an addendum. >> to that. >> school or college. >> explain what ontology is for viewers. >> well to take deep domain

knowledge and then scale it inside your enterprise. you're going to have to use you. first of all, you're gonna have to have the enterprise completely structured in a way that's that actually works. so you're going to have to replace the seams that are in your enterprise. that's exactly where the ai fails. then you're going to need a way of orchestrating the large language models and by the way, orchestrating it so that each tidbit of the large language model is in the right place at the right time, and it's doing it in a way that's secure. so internal, not external tooling. you need a way that you keep your domain knowledge. you know, the palantir platform. despite what you might read at the new york times, is actually the most secure, the hardest platform in the world to manipulate and change. of course, any technology can be abused, but if you wanted to abuse the technology, if you wanted to use the deep state to unlawfully surveil people, the last platform on the world you would pick is palantir. because of the granular way we segment and put

together and the security models and the access control models that are in foundry natively, not a built on addendum. and by the way, that focus on civil liberties is making us really rich, which drives the woke pagan religious practicing, neo neanderthal thinking people who ignore technology absolutely nuts on the right and the left while we're building value. by the way, i asked for permission before i went nuts from our wonderful, slightly conservative and highly substantive partner, and he gave me permission to embarrass him. he didn't realize it'd be this embarrassing. >> i think it comes with. >> the territory, my views, not his. >> okay, so, alex, let's get into that. new york times has an article. here's the headline. trump taps palantir to compile data on americans. they paint a pretty orwellian picture of what you and the trump administration. >> are doing here. i picked a random engineer and i said, we have, by the way, we have a contest. find all the technically absolutely erroneous things in this article in 90s.

and i picked a random engineer. he's like, i was like, well, how many do you think you could do in 90s? he's like, well, 15, 20 but but leaving aside the technical look, it's so it's probably. >> is that what. >> you're saying? sure. well it's not. well, first of all, on the tech side, it is so ridiculous. i read the new york times, it's literally like i'm a dyslexic. they might as well be hiring me to do a spelling bee. so and maybe they just have friends who are tech bros, but they can't hire on a meritocratic basis, i don't know, so that's up to them. we have a contest, find all the errors in 90s. i think somebody will find 50 or 60. but the more important thing is we are not surveilling americans. we are not building a database of surveillance. and if you wanted to do that, the last platform in the world you would buy is palantir. and don't believe me? go look, spend ten minutes and look at the architecture of our product, ten minutes and then see how ridiculous that is. by

the way, writing ridiculous in a highly charged environment is dangerous, and the new york times should take responsibility for the danger they're putting out in the world. there really are people who believe that crap. well, they believe that. >> one thing that's true, though, is that you have increased your contracts with the government, and that has accelerated under the trump administration. >> of course, we're. but by the way, even there, you know, mathematically, somewhat moderately legal person would say, okay, well, they're increasing in government by 45%. that's pretty baller. how are they increasing in the us? commercial 71%. are we building a database to conspire against our own people in the us commercial context with no sales force? so i mean, yeah, we're winning. yeah. great. you know what? tell everybody we're winning. we are winning. and by the way, we have a rule of 83. while we do, it basically means we don't have or have a basically a net sales force. and we're winning and we know we're winning because the product is

the best in the world. and you know what the trump administration is actually doing at every other government in the world is doing, because everyone wants to beat china, who's not china is buy the best product. what is the best product? they're not buying our product because they like me or they like my speeches. honestly, he's wondering why he has to buy the product from me to buy it. because i'm going to make your company really, really financially strong, more secure, more efficient. increase the revenues. why does the why does the us government buy the product? first of all, it's a product. it's not a waste of time service. best thing that can be abused. by the way, we lost so much revenue in the last 20 years because people wanted to buy things that could be abused. it's really hard to abuse palantir. you could do services. who knows what a services company is doing with your data, or you could do with the new york times does or consumer internet does. you could resell the data and productize your users. by the way, there's a high correlation between prioritizing your users and selling them woke pagan bs. >> it's a good point. what are you doing.

>> that with palantir? but you can't. >> the irs was one example. >> yeah. you know, we have so many contracts in the us government. i mean, i'll tell you what, i without the specifics, i can tell you exactly what we're doing in the irs. we're going to use a very the most secure platform in the world to make replace inept software with cheaper, better software that is more efficient. that's what we're doing. i assume at the irs we have so many contracts. i know that's what we're doing here. that's what we're doing with 71% of growth. you know what we're doing in the dod? we're scaring the bejeebers. i'm trying not to use the f word out of our adversaries by making them scared at night. and you know how we're doing it by installing productized software that runs algorithms against data that's been lawfully collected, and you can't unlawfully use it in our platform, which is one of the main reasons people buy it and keep it. >> all right, chris, we know you haven't been rendered mute, so i'm going to come to you and ask

you, you know, healthcare. listen, we're having a huge debate right now in this country, obviously, about spending and about deficits that are unsustainable. health care seems to be at the center of so much of our spending. we spend more than any country. we yet we don't get outcomes that seem anywhere near what we should. how do you see that being transformed, and can it be given some of the larger efforts you're making here in terms of what you when you talk about the ai revolution in health care? >> yeah, absolutely. and this is the reason that we're partnering with palantir. you know, teletrac has been in this for three decades, focused on the operations. when you talk about the macroeconomic issues, we're at 20% and growing in gdp. spend is part of health care. we're ranked 48th or 49th, depending on the study you look at and efficiency in that health care. so our mission and our shared mission in this is to bend the cost curve of health care down while improving access and quality of care. and we're doing that through improving the operations, the small transactions, small things, everyone's experience, the wait times and health care, everyone's experience, the

unknowns and health care. and so we have more capability that we have built over the years that is now going to be augmented with our partnership using foundry and ap, and the expertise that palantir brings, coupled with our deep domain knowledge, we can drive the cost of health care down. >> medicaid and medicare spending. obviously, a key portion of our spending overall. i mean, is it your overall belief that over time, given ai and what it can accomplish, that we can meaningfully reduce spending while actually improving outcomes? >> absolutely, 100%. and i think what we've seen, microeconomic versions of this across hospitals, roughly half, 45% of hospitals cannot make money inside the medicare and medicaid margins, but some do. the ones that do have focused on the operation side of their business, just like in every other industry. and efficiency and productivity improves outcomes. >> alex, while we're on sort of bigger, bigger picture issues,

the big beautiful bill, i wanted to ask you about this has a provision that bans states and localities from regulating ai for a decade. is that a good idea? >> look, i mean, look, i'm not i'm busy in the building. what i believe will be the largest and is, i think, already maybe the most important software business in the world. and so i, i'm not really reading bills. i, i my general bias on ai is it is dangerous. there are positive and negative consequences and either we win or china will win. so a lot of stuff that would be really important to look at. we we're in an arms race. and by the way i don't even mean an arms race. just the obvious. like our ai on the battlefield is better than theirs. or the world order will change, which i think almost everyone intuitively understands. it's also how do we have the strongest economy in the world. and again, we have when you're when you're building a business, you really have to build where

you're strong. so like we focus on software, we focus on technology. you as alluding to the early part of the conversation. when you veer from that, you end up with weird nonperformance products like the new york times article. but if you stick to where we have strength, which is essentially business acumen, business knowledge, domain specific ways of doing things, and then using software to hyper charge the efficiencies. now, why would we do that? well, as a matter of theory, you as a matter, you would think, well, we'll do it just because we're, you know, we can, but we also do it because we're the best in the world at it. there is no economy in the world with this kind of corporate leadership which is willing to pivot, which understands technologies, which is willing to look at new things, but also has deep domain expertise. our our allies in the west, in europe are are going to have to learn from us. our allies in the middle east are learning quicker from us. our adversaries are trying to learn

from us. and we're not. you can't look at this as a vacuum. one of the biggest mistakes that people are making is, you know, they people become economically literate. so you wouldn't write an article saying you should just borrow money endlessly, but you could write an article that's just as stupid on technology, and tech gets a say here. and america has every advantage in this field. like every advantage, every company you'd want to buy from, not just us, others, great companies, every company you'd want to sell to, every company that's selling to customers, that's flexible. and we get the best people. you have to focus on that. and anything slowing us down is just essentially a transfer of ip to our. >> you declared it dangerous. >> we will pay a huge price for that. >> so how do we mitigate. you just called it dangerous. so how do we mitigate the risk catastrophic risk while also beating china. >> no, no. sorry. anything powerful is dangerous right. so it's like you can't say ai is just going to be unmitigated

good or bad. well, i'll tell you what. we have honest discussions about tracking where it's going. how close are we to agi? what is working? who are the people doing it? you know, i welcome a discussion about who is in charge of these technologies. great. you know, you have people on the left and increasingly on the right who just think i'm a shaman person gathering money and data magically, i just we just show up. it just happens. it just happens. yeah. it just happens. yeah. it just magically, you know, and we've got to fight against that. we've got to educate our populace. we've got to focus on meritocracy. we've got to allow a culture where the best products can win and they stay profitable. and we have to fight for that. and by the way, every everyone who is on the sidelines and thinks you can get away with not fighting about for these things with honest discussions is going to find out the other side, which is luddite, regressive, pagan. they will win. and that's that's what we have to do and then quantify the results. >> yeah, it's david, i you know,

it's funny when i hear you talk about hyper charged efficiency, i do wonder and i'm not sure i know your full view on. we've been just starting to grapple with the societal implications of what that means for employment. i don't know where you come down on this, but, you know, it's something that i think we all are just trying to think about. >> we, those of us in tech cannot have a tin ear to what is this going to mean for the average person and the kind of ai we're doing, which is in enterprises will net can't can if we work very, very hard at it, be net accretive to the workforce in america. and by the way, one of the most important things we can help do is aptitude testing there. >> why do you believe. >> that's the case, alex? >> why do you believe it's going to be additive to the workforce? i just want to understand the underlying. >> i didn't say it will be. no, no. sorry. okay. you have to be careful about this. you can't say it will be. it can be. we have to will it to be. and we have to will it to be. because

otherwise we're going to have deep societal upheavals that i think many in our elite are just really ignoring. >> that's why i mentioned it. but what does that look like? will it to be what? i don't need to understand what that means. >> i don't want to take up all the time. i'm happy to talk about this all day. we have one of the top corporate leaders. >> can i just add something? add something that alex on the on the workforce. if you look at the if you look at the workforce in healthcare, the downward pressure on staffing of nurses and people in the in the healthcare industry, we're underserved. we do not have enough workers in this space. when we talk about efficiency and productivity, leveraging this partnership to improve that, we are enabling that workforce that is significantly under pressure today. so i would put that in a different context than healthcare. >> finally, you know, alex, the stock i mean, i mentioned it at the top 76% this year, on top of last year's 340% gain that you have a lot of believers, but it's now valued at 205 times.

next year, 12 month earnings. the s&p is 22 times you feel the do you feel the pressure to deliver on those high expectations? >> i feel the pressure every day to deliver on high expectations right here. that's the high expectation i feel the pressure to deliver on. i feel the high expectation to deliver for our retail investors especially that, you know, defended us against the so-called experts that are defending us now against the so-called non-expert who pretending to be experts. i feel the high expectations of the 4000 ontarians who are among, if not the most talented people in the world, the ontarians who are building some of the most interesting companies in the world, the high expectations of getting our government to actually be the most efficient, ethical non-transactional non surveillance, but still able to do its core function governments. i feel the expectation of scaring the f out of our enemies, and i feel the expectation of doing my thing, and that's what we're focused on. and you know what? don't

like the price? it's a it's a one of the beautiful things about being in the public markets. we are a private company for, you know, most vast majority of our history. you don't like the price exit. you do like the price by. i'm focused on the high expectations of a very, very high confidence driven person like the person next to me and many others, and especially, quite frankly, of the warfighter who's out there protecting us. you know, when they go out and they risk their lives, in many cases, not all, but almost all, they're risking their life with palantir at their back and in front of them. that's a really high expectation. and that's what i'm focused on. and that's why i defend palantir against largely player hating, technically ignorant people who wish they could get out of the vacuum of their pagan religion and understand how companies are built, how tech works, and produce products that can't be disseminated in 90s.

>> so many pagans. alex karp, thank you so much for the time. always colorful. alex karp, founder ceo with chris johnson, teletracking co-ceo, who just announced a big deal today with palantir. i think dispelling some of the concerns out there around the data collection certainly had a lot to say about the new york times, but also about the growth in the commercial business, what they're doing for their customers and for the us government as well. >> while you've been talking headlines from both chinese media and the president about that phone call this morning, let's get to eamon javers. hey, ayman. carl. >> a long and detailed confirmation now from president trump on his conversation by telephone with president xi jinping of china. the president said the call lasted about an hour and a half. he says they discussed a range of topics, but it focused almost entirely on trade. he says there should no longer be any questions respecting the complexity of rare earth products. not entirely clear what that means, of course, but he also says our respective teams will be meeting

shortly at a location to be determined. we will be represented by secretary of the treasury scott bessent, secretary of commerce howard lutnick, and united states trade representative ambassador jamison greer. he also says that he was invited to china and that he invited in turn xi jinping to the united states for a visit. he says that's something that we both look forward to doing. he says the conversation was focused almost entirely on trade, says nothing was discussed concerning russia, ukraine or iran. and we'll inform the media as soon as the meeting is scheduled. so clearly, a high level meeting between these two sides coming up at some point. tbd not clear from this statement whether anything at all had been agreed to other than the existence of a meeting, and these mutual invitations and gestures of respect from the two leaders back and forth. so you'd have to say a positive phone call here, but maybe lacking some of the detail in terms of agreements or agreements to have agreements

that i think some folks on wall street were looking for. also, we got some comments from xi jinping to chinese state media over the past 20 minutes. while you guys were in that interview, a couple of things that xi jinping said that were kind of interesting. one is he said that trump is welcome to visit china again. he said the u.s. should cancel negative measures taken against china, and that both sides should enhance their exchanges. he said the two sides should enhance exchanges in diplomatic, economic, trade, military and law enforcement. he also made a couple of points about taiwan, which is interesting. he said the u.s. should handle the taiwan issue carefully, and u.s. should avoid a very small number of taiwan independence separatists who are dragging china and the u.s. into a dangerous situation and conflict and confrontation. so while the president of the united states's statement on this call said that it was almost entirely focused on trade, the president of china suggests they did talk about taiwan, and the president of china issued some warnings to

the us side. carl. >> so if we are in a mode now where we're renewing a schedule for talks and maybe even meetings, are we back to even on the geneva handshake? >> it's a good question, right? i mean, this is now setting up a much higher level meeting of high level officials and then the two heads of state meeting at some point in china and the united states. not clear, carl from this when any of that will happen. so, you know, does that happen before or after the president's deadline for chinese tariffs? that's an open question. at this point. we'll try to get some clarity from the white house, if they have any sense of when that could happen. and then the other question is on the rare earths, i mean, this this sentence from the president is a little bit enigmatic. he said there should no longer be any questions respecting the complexity of rare earth products. so we'll see what what comes of that? >> means exactly. >> clear what that means. yeah. >> but visits and high level meetings. that's positive. it's better than nothing. thank you. >> a lot of positive rhetoric here. >> definitely. yeah. positive rhetoric and respectful. thank

you, eamon javers i'm heading over to the i'm missing the next hour because i'll be at the economic club of new york to interview the fed governor adriana kugler. we'll bring you some headlines on cnbc later on in the day. she's a fed governor, gets a vote at every meeting, and also has a good international sensibility used to work at the world bank. she's also been a labor economist. so we'll ask what she makes of some of the recent signs on the job market. >> good. you're going to walk there? >> i'm not going to walk. >> you're not? >> if i was going to walk. no. >> no, no, it's economic plug, not the fed. okay. >> sorry. i wouldn't use my phone if i walk. so do not use your phone when you're walking around because you can then hit things, which i did, i ran in, i rammed a metal box attached to a street pole. i'm okay, but i have. i'm a little banged up. thank god for the makeup artist and for the group of argentinean tourists who basically rescued me and cleaned me up. i just had to get that out there. >> meantime, a big test for the ipo market. today as circle goes public, jeremy allaire is with us when money movers begins in just a couple of minutes.

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