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available now on the apple app store, android and m taylor comm. it's 6 p.m. here in new york. >> i'm antonia hilton, along with ayman mohideen and. >> catherine rampell. elise jordan is off tonight. >> welcome to the weekend prime time. we begin tonight with breaking news. >> out of los angeles. >> right now, we're seeing. >> the third. >> night of protests. >> over. >> the trump administration's. >> aggressive immigration raids. >> this morning, president. >> trump. >> deployed 2000 national. >> guard. >> troops. >> despite the fact. >> both governor. >> gavin newsom. >> and los angeles. >> mayor karen bass said. >> it. >> was not necessary. >> the last. time a united states. president deployed. >> troops and bypassed the authority of a state's. >> governor was. >> when president. >> lyndon b johnson. >> sent troops to. alabama to protect. >> civil rights demonstrators. in 1965.

>> today. >> newsom is calling out trump for. >> aiming. >> to. >> quote. >> manufacture a. >> crisis and. >> hoping for. >> chaos so he can justify. >> more. >> crackdowns, more fear, more control. defense secretary pete hegseth threatened to deploy active duty marines. >> if violence. >> continued, a move. newsom called insane. meantime, the lapd said in a statement. >> the. >> protests were. >> mostly peaceful. >> yesterday. >> and the l.a. >> county sheriff's department. >> noted. >> that while multiple people. >> were detained. >> so far. >> just one. >> person was charged. >> earlier. >> president trump was asked about the los angeles protests, and here is what he had to say. >> are you prepared. >> to invoke. >> the insurrection act? >> depends on whether or not there's an insurrection. no, no, but you have violent people, and we're not going to let them get away with it. we're going to have troops everywhere. we're not going to let this happen to our country. we're not going to let our country be torn apart like it was under biden. they

get up to him this far away, and then they start spitting in their face. that happens. they get hit very hard. if we think there's a serious insurrection or less than that, we're going to have law and order very important. >> we go. >> now to los angeles. >> where nbc. >> news correspondent david. >> noriega is standing. >> by for us. david. >> bring us into the scene. >> what you. >> are feeling hearing from people on the ground. now. >> i know you've had. conversations with. >> some members of congress. >> describe for us. >> what the scene is like and what you're bracing for this evening. >> yeah. hi, guys. so to explain to you first where i am right now, we're outside of the federal building in downtown la, right across from the metropolitan detention center, where a number of the people who were detained in these large scale ice operations were held before being moved to other, bigger ice processing centers. what you see behind me are the national guard troops that were deployed by donald trump in contravention of governor newsom's wishes. as you pointed out, antonia, it's been 60 years since something like that happened. so just their presence

here behind me right now is historic. now, i want to bring you out to the street briefly, just to show you what's happening in terms of the protests, things have heated up and gotten quite a bit more, you know, just large scale and explosive since i last spoke to you, eamon, what you have is both northbound on alameda and southbound on alameda. you have large groups of protesters that have converged here on the federal building from different parts of the city, a group that came from boyle heights, a group that came from city hall, which is about three blocks that way. and the biggest thing that's happened, i don't know if you can hear those booms behind me, but what that is lapd riot police deploying non-lethal munitions against these different groups of protesters. they've deployed tear gas, they've deployed foam rounds, rubber rounds and pepper balls. they are basically trying to push this large. i wasn't able to, you know, get an aerial view or anything, but it looks like several hundred protesters that tried to approach and came very close to approaching the federal building here. lapd has been able to push them back. the federal security forces that we've seen here, the dhs police and the national guard troops are staying put here. they're protecting this area, the

federal building. this is where this is where a lot of the protests have been focused in the last couple of days, protesters from different parts of the city, again, in large numbers, keep trying to converge on this point and getting pushed away. and in some instances, from the looks of it being kettled by lapd. so this is one of the big things that people have been asking themselves, what role is lapd and local law enforcement going to play in this? at this point, they are very clearly doing some, from what i've seen, pretty aggressive crowd control. i've seen them push people, you know, skip foam and rubber rounds directly at people at very close range. you know, i think just trying to keep people away from where we are now currently, where we are, is behind the police lines. there are police lines that way and police lines that way. and again, hundreds of protesters on either side. >> david, i know that just looking at where you're standing right now, you're on the side that is obviously more stacked with the lapd. but take us back an hour or so ago when you were closer to the protesters, when you were in between the protesters and the national guard outside that building. over the course of those hours

and the course of the last couple of days, have you gotten a sense of whether the protesters had any specific demands? why were they concentrated around that specific building? were they just expressing anger, or was there another objective from those that were there on the front line? >> look, i think this ranges from everything from a sort of spontaneous, angry reaction to these large scale immigration enforcement operations in la in a in a not necessarily fully or clearly articulated way to much clearer demands being made by some of the more organized elements in these protests. look, the core message here that you see in signs that you hear people chant, that you hear all the time is ice out of l.a. there are this is a profoundly immigrant community. the number in the percentage of undocumented people and their loved ones in the city is enormous. and this is something that, honestly has been in the works for a long time. people in the city have been organizing for and preparing for a large scale immigration enforcement action by the trump administration. there are rapid

response networks that have been organizing from the ground up in this city for months, preparing for this moment. so when it happened, when it came, it's no surprise that there was a strong and organized response to it, just in terms of people filling the streets in terms of concrete demands. you know, the metropolitan detention center, that i'm standing in front of the federal facility where ice detainees are housed before they're transferred to, to bigger facilities. i'm told that both members of congress, sitting members of congress, who have the legal authority to enter this building for oversight purposes, as well as lawyers, pro bono legal service providers who have who are trying to give the detainees, allow the detainees to avail themselves of the right to counsel that they have, according to u.s. law, have been denied access to that building. so we have members of congress, civil society in los angeles demanding access to the building that they say they are lawfully allowed access to. so far, we have not actually seen them be able to get access. instead, really, what you have is, is a showdown between protesters. it feels very tense. you know, like i said, i'm in between these two

lines, police lines pushing protesters that way and that way. it feels at this moment like a powder keg. you have the police really deploying fairly aggressive crowd control tactics. and the crowd, the protesters themselves are also quite fired up, quite agitated. i've seen, you know, a handful of people throwing water bottles and things like that at the police lines. that's pretty much the extent of the i don't know what you might describe as something other than peaceful action that i've seen, but you're definitely seeing people angry at not just the federal government, not just at trump, not just at the national guard, but also at the lapd and at the at local law enforcement as well. >> david. so last night, the lapd released a statement referring to these peaceful protests. donald trump has since referred to them as riots. could you give us your view from on the ground about what it's actually like there? how is there a lot of chaos? is riot really a word we would use to describe the conditions on the ground where you are? >> no, i wouldn't describe this as a riot. and i've covered protests, many protests, large protests over the years, and not

just the united states and other countries. i've been to protests that i would describe as riots. this is not a protest that i would describe as a riot. it's also not as sort of peaceful, slowly walking down the street with a permit, you know, chanting organized slogans, kind of march. it's more confrontational than that. it's more disorganized than that. it is not seeking approval, you know, from the authorities of the city, either formally or in spirit. i would describe it as a very confrontational, very high tension, but nevertheless peaceful protest. >> all right, david noriega, live for us there in los angeles. david, thank you so much. we're going to check in with you throughout the course of the evening. please stay safe. take any measures that you need to protect yourself and the crew. really appreciate your reporting. let's bring into the conversation. jacob soboroff, nbc correspondent. somebody who's been covering immigration extensively over the past several years, certainly knows the trump administration's policy better than anyone else. let's talk about this watershed moment that we find ourselves in. jacob, certainly, from your vantage point, somebody who's

been covering this for years and in the second trump administration, this is a moment that many people had feared, a moment that was going to come to fruition with the intense crackdowns, the mass deportations that the trump administration had sought, had campaigned on and now is trying to fulfill. and the pushback that is coming from communities, certainly in los angeles, but elsewhere across the country. talk us through how we got to this moment and what the administration is preparing to do next. >> well, said eamon, you know, you remember that obviously in the first trump administration, perhaps one of the most notorious immigration policies in the history of the country was the family separation policy that forcibly and deliberately separated 5500 children from their parents. they had disavowed that policy coming into the second term, but they had on the floor of the republican convention, from where i reported held up signs that said mass deportation. now, thousands of people and almost a jubilant sort of celebratory

type of atmosphere and environment. and what is mass deportation? mass deportation is family separation by another name. it's not separating parents from their children at the southwest border, but it is taking parents away from their children in the interior of the country. and you're watching, in some respect, the effectuation of that right now. i've said over the last couple days, this is the worst fear for so many people who live and work and pray in los angeles, because this is a majority minority city, more than half of the people that live here are people of color, largely latino, in the largest county by population in the united states of america, nearly 10% of the population, by some estimations, is undocumented. maybe a million people here. and so to see ice unleashed in a way that has not heretofore happened, or certainly not in the last multiple democratic and republican administrations, even though we have seen enforcement actions on the street showing up at places like home depot, where day laborers are on the side of

the road looking to help people with their daily menial tasks to get hired, and not just at workplace enforcement raids or out against violent criminals. as tom homan had said originally they would do is, i think, striking fear into the hearts of so many people here. and i mentioned that i spoke to karen bass, the mayor of los angeles, just two minutes before i came on, on the air with you. and earlier this weekend, yesterday, i spoke with tom homan, the border czar here, who was in southern california, may still be to watch these operations unfold. he had said that mayor bass and governor newsom could be subject to arrest if they get in between the ice operations of the federal government and the people that they are seeking out, he said. they haven't done that yet, but that potentially he would reserve that option. let me play that sound for you right now. and then on the other side of him, i tell you what, mayor bass said in response. take a look to tom homan. and there have been threats. you know previously that if you stand in the way of your

enforcement operations, you know, you could be subject potentially to arrest. are you saying that about mayor bass and governor newsom? are they at risk of being arrested? >> i'll say it about anybody. you cross that line. it's a friendly to knowingly harboring an illegal alien. it's a felony to impede law enforcement doing their job. >> do you think that the mayor of l.a. is doing that? >> you know, it's you crossed that line. we'll ask doj to prosecute. do i think she's crossing? i don't think she's crossed the line yet. but i'm telling you, the warning we're sending is we're not going to tolerate people attacking our officers. you violate the law, can be prosecuted. >> you violate the law, and you will be prosecuted. mayor bass told me to talk to tom homan right around the time that i did that interview last night. she's also been in touch with the white house, and she's insistent that there is nothing that the local government is doing to get in between ice and the people that they're looking to detain. although she made it very clear that the civil enforcement of immigration law is up only to the federal government, not to the officers. but look, lapd,

you're looking at them on the center of your screen right now. those are los angeles police department officers in their tactical riot gear on alameda street in downtown los angeles, outside of the metropolitan detention center, which is the federal government facility holding some of those people that were picked up and detained by ice over the course of the last several days. and so the mayor here is in a particular situation, she quite literally, and her officers specifically are in between the protesters who are not protesting necessarily the lapd, although many of them have in years past are protesting the national guard that was brought here over the objections of the governor of the state, gavin newsom, who normally would be in the position to deploy them and activated by the president of the united states under title ten of the united states code. and now, what is a domestic military operation to protect federal government employees? these ice agents see agents, fbi agents who are out doing these immigration enforcement raids,

and the federal buildings where the ice detainees are being held. and i do think it's important to say what david noriega has underscored is critical for people to understand this is not a riot. what we have seen is not a riot. we have seen angry people, very scared people in many respects worried that the fabric of the community here in los angeles is being torn apart by these unprecedented raids that are taking place on the streets of los angeles. and the question is, you know, will they continue? tom homan said that ice will be here every day, but to what scale and what scope? and will this become a de-escalating set of circumstances here, or will it continue to escalate? the governor is trying to deescalate, that's for sure. putting out statements, saying as much. but a lot of people are worried. a lot of people are worried for many reasons, not just the potential detention and removal, deportation of undocumented people who have lived much of their lives here, but also just about civil unrest on the streets of the second largest city in the country,

where i think a lot of these folks that are out there want to demonstrate peacefully against immigration enforcement and the priorities of the trump administration. you guys. >> jacob. >> i want to. >> talk to you a bit. >> you mentioned. >> the domestic military action here. >> now. >> immigration reporters talk often behind the scenes about this concept. >> of border theater. >> and the fact that so often. >> this country. >> especially from the right, there's very little in the way of solutions. >> being offered. >> comprehensive immigration reform. >> no one seems to be able to. >> figure that out. and instead. >> what we often. >> are fed are. >> images and a sort of performance of enforcement. >> and i'm curious. >> given your background, your history in this work and the fact i know you've been engaged in conversations about this when you look at these images, is border theater. >> what you. >> see here? i mean, is there any sense from anyone in. >> la. >> right now that the national guard. has brought peace, stability or calm? or is it

something else, jacob? >> the national guard's mission. antonia isn't even to engage with folks. they're basically meant to sit back and protect these federal buildings for now. and if the ice agents go out, i suppose they could go out with them. but there's a lot of uncertainty about about that. you know, as reporters, we're supposed to ask questions. and i mean, one big question, glaring one that i have is before the national guard was deployed, what was the purpose of having bortac, the elite tactical unit of the border patrol, which is meant to patrol, quite literally, the border of the country? they do things like raid a stash houses and go after cartels, look at tunnels along the southwest border, at least one of which i've been down in myself with a specialized team that goes down and does that for the border patrol. what was bortac? reportedly, if the reports are true doing in the interior of the country, you know, in los angeles county yesterday, as part of an enforcement effort near a home depot or reported enforcement effort near home depot. and i

think those are scary images for people to see. and they are meant, in many cases, to send a message. when you go down to the border and you see a show of force that's meant to keep people from crossing it, and there's some version of that, i think, you know, your point is a good one playing out in the interior here. you know, we aren't on the border. we're very far from it. we are in a city 490 something square mile city that in which the los angeles unified school district, one of the biggest in the country, has hundreds of languages spoken. thousands of students who are part of mixed status families. and the idea that the border patrol itself would be operating. and now the national guard within the within the city. that is not something that people here are used to. are there tensions between the police department here historically, going back to the riots in 1992 and even before that to the 1960s? yes, of course there are. are there marginalized communities here who have tenuous relationships

with militarized law enforcement? of course there is. that's not a secret. that's a part of los angeles history as much as anything else. but the idea that the border patrol in 2025, even though it was warned by the trump administration that this might and could happen now that it is, i do think that there's an element of seeing these images on the street. i've gotten texts from from immigrants myself today, people who are not u.s. citizens tell me how scared they are, asking me if i know where immigration enforcement activities are taking place. of course i don't. these are closely held to the vest, and i guess what was being expressed to me is what's being felt by so many people. they see these people on the streets, they see these agents on the streets, and they want answers. and i think in some form and function, that's what the people that are on the left hand side of your screen on alameda street, down outside the metropolitan detention center and on the other side of the building, i might add. i don't know if we have the aerials, but up above and below, excuse me, below city hall in grant park,

where it looks like hundreds, if not more people were assembled earlier for a big, peaceful protest. they want to know what's going on in the in the city of la and in the state of california. and that is why i think karen bass called me earlier to let her know, to let me know that that, you know, she believes that tom homan's words are without justification, that this is a provocative act by the white house. and governor newsom has said the same thing. >> we're going to have to sneak in a quick break right now. but everyone, please stay with us. david. jacob, we are back with more breaking coverage after a more breaking coverage after a very the darkness of bipolar depression made me feel like life was moving on without me. then i found a chance to let in the lyte. discover caplyta. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta is proven to deliver significant symptom relief from both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis.

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spotless house for $19. i've lived. >> in washington. >> on and off for a long time, and i've worked in many positions in government in the white house, the state department, congress. and what i hope to do on the show is really peel the curtain back for people to help people understand what is happening in government and most importantly, what impacts them. because one of the questions i get asked when i'm on the streets or when i'm on the train is, what does this mean for me? and what are people who are representing me, doing for me doing about it? >> we are back now with the breaking news out of los angeles, where people have taken to the streets to protest the trump administration's aggressive immigration raids there. we're going to bring in laura mukherjee. she's the director of the immigrants rights clinic at columbia law school. and jacob soboroff, who is still with us. but first, i want to talk with laura. so, laura, this is not happening in a in a vacuum of any kind. can

you walk us through what immigrant families beyond la are experiencing right now in this trump administration? >> immigrant families across the country are terrified, and this terror has increased over the past week. in the past week, we've seen immigration raids across the country, including those targeting families with children. we've seen these raids taking place at workplaces and also in immigration courthouses themselves. so when individuals and families with children are going to their immigration court hearings trying to do everything right by complying with their immigration obligations, what we've seen is that the department of homeland security is filing motions to dismiss their immigration cases. immigration judges are granting those motions. and then as individuals and families step out of the courtroom, ice is there waiting, waiting to target individuals and families, arresting them, taking them immediately into detention, not

giving them any opportunity to arrange their affairs. and many of these people will be likely summarily deported from immigration detention. it is extraordinarily difficult to access a lawyer for a person who is in immigration detention. there's no right to government appointed counsel, and it has resulted in a large number of immigrant families and other immigrants in immigration detention facilities. it's terrifying. >> can you. sorry, can you just explain the why are immigration judges granting these decisions to basically cancel the legitimate processes of some of these migrants? because i think some of our viewers may find it confusing that the immigration judicial system is different than outside, like the federal court system or the, you know, the broader judicial system in which there are more processes that are considered due processes. >> it's a great question. so immigration judges don't have the protections that are

afforded to federal judges. they don't have life tenure, for example. they are political appointees of the department of justice. immigration judges right now are under enormous pressure to comply with the administration's directives. and so when individuals and families are coming into their courtrooms, largely without counsel, without knowing how to navigate the immigration process, the department of homeland security lawyer says, well, let's dismiss this case. and the judge grants that motion because a person who's unrepresented doesn't speak english, doesn't understand the legal system, doesn't even know that they're they have the right to oppose that motion. it is a system that is dramatically unfair to unrepresented immigrants who are facing the immigration court system. >> a little bit, too. >> because i think this is the other. >> piece that a. >> lot of americans don't have a touch point for. >> what actually. happens when. >> federal agents arrive and they raid a workplace, or.

>> they're outside. >> of a school. >> the of course, there may be the person they say they're looking for. >> but often there's collateral. >> then there's the children of those people, the classmates of those people. >> we saw that. >> happen in massachusetts when. >> a boy who was supposed to. graduate was detained. >> for days. >> and. >> his classmates. were traumatized, visibly traumatized by that experience. so, you know, this administration has made the argument that they're going after people with who are criminals. and, yes, we pick up other people along the way. >> but what is. >> actually happening. often when they arrive at these sites? and how. >> are people. >> experiencing this and then affected by it for the long term? >> so initially, the administration said that they were focusing on people with criminal convictions and those who posed a threat to u.s. national security. that's not what we are seeing in recent weeks, especially over the last week or two. we're seeing an administration that is intent on going after everyone who is

undocumented or even those who are documented, but for some reason have lost their status in the united states. and the administration is going after f, ripping families apart and ripping communities apart, going after caregivers, going after farmworkers, going after factory workers. and the results are traumatizing not only for the individual immigrant families that are affected, but literally for entire communities. and that is the point. the administration is driven right now by cruelty when it comes to immigration policy, cruelty, white nationalism, xenophobia and racism. the administration wants to send a clear message to immigrant communities across the united states. we don't want you leave. and it's similarly trying to send a message of deterrence around the world. don't come here. >> so a question about how immigrants themselves are responding to all of this. you

mentioned that enforcement actions are happening at workplaces, at schools, at other once secure, you know, sensitive sites. how is that affecting people's actual behavior? in la, there have been calls from neighbors saying, you know, the immigration authorities are here. stay inside. presumably people can't live under house arrest indefinitely. so how are people living under these conditions if they can't send their kids to school, if they can't go out to work, if they can't even go out and buy groceries? >> it's an extraordinarily difficult time for many, many immigrant families across the country. school attendance rates are down, hospital visits. doctors visits are down by immigrant populations. people have dropped out of the workforce out of fear, and some people are trying to live a normal life, trying to protect their children from everything that's going on right now,

trying to protect them from the knowledge that their families might be separated. other immigrant families are making the difficult decision to tell their children what may happen to their families. they're developing emergency plans. if, for example, mom doesn't come home, who's going to take care of the kids? if, for example, dad gets picked up at work, who will take care of grandma? all of these emergency plans and these conversations are starting to take place with greater urgency. >> jacob, let me get one final question to you, if i can, about where these raids are taking place across the country and how do you see the administration specifically laying out a map of these raids, if you will? and i think of like what i've seen in the last 72 hours between cities like new york city, los angeles. now, prior to that, chicago. are we seeing the same type of mass deportation or mass enforcement operations in deeply red cities, deeply red states? how are they

being received there? and what do you think this portends about the administration's overall strategy with immigration enforcement and politics? >> you read my mind, eamon. actually, while i was listening to your conversation, i was thinking about as we watched lapd, black and whites here roll up on on alameda street here in downtown los angeles, nashville, tennessee, where in may there was a very large scale enforcement operation in partnership with the tennessee highway patrol. and nearly 200 people were were swept up in that effort. that was basically focused around traffic stops. and in the wake of that action, nashville, obviously a blue dot and a red state, you know, attendance at church plummeted. kids stayed home from school. mariachi plaza, which is a historic almost like a food court in in nashville, was virtually empty, a ghost town. and so this is a playbook now that we have seen tested in other cities. but now it is

brought to one of the most diverse, one of the most immigrant friendly cities in the united states of america, if not, if not the world. and so watching this come to la, is striking. watching the lapd and these images for people who might just be joining us in their riot gear, holding up those nonlethal munitions at at protesters who are out there to do, you know, there may be some agitators, but are out there to do what hundreds of thousands of people did during family separation, which was come to the streets in a bipartisan way to condemn the policies of the trump administration. you have to ask them whether or not the trump administration wants to see these images on your screen, but they're certainly using the tension in los angeles over these enforcement efforts to bring out troops that have been deputized now by the president, united states, to the streets of los angeles. and they're probably about a block away from what you're looking at on the screen right now.

>> all right, jacob, thank you so much for that. laura. let me kind of dig in on the authority here that the president has, because i understand that what you're saying is the cruelty is obviously the objective. and there's a lot of cruelty that is on display with the way the administration is going about this. but the reality is the law allows them to do this. and i think this is the anger that a lot of people are finding themselves in, which is the local officials. karen bass, governor gavin newsom. they certainly don't want these mass enforcement rates to be happening. and yet there's nothing they can do legally to prevent them from happening. and the protests legally cannot prevent these arrests or these deportations from happening. and so we find ourselves in this, like, very difficult situation where we want to appeal to the humanity of an administration that clearly has demonstrated none throughout this policy. >> i think it's worth noting that the president calling in the national guard to los

angeles is a dramatic and unnecessary escalation. it is a fundamental precept of american democracy that people have the right to protest, that people have the right to engage in speech and political dissent, and people have freedom of assembly. at least we should have that under the constitution. and what we're seeing is a president who is calling in the military in what may turn out to be an effort to police civilian dissent. this is far from the bounds of our constitutional democracy, and it is a sign that our nation may be slipping toward authoritarianism. it is absolutely appropriate for the people of los angeles to express their dissent, to express their outrage that their communities are being devastated by immigration enforcement actions. it is in the nature of american democracy for people to be out in the streets peacefully protesting. >> all right. >> laura, we're going to ask you

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it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. go online, call, or scan right now. >> happening right now. >> you're looking. >> at live pictures out of los angeles. >> president trump has deployed 2000 national guard troops against the wishes of the governor and. >> mayor, who. >> are both urging for calm. when trump spoke earlier about the protests, he left open the possibility of invoking the insurrection act if things turned violent. joining us now is michael cohen, former personal attorney to donald trump. he's also the host of the mea culpa podcast and substack top rated host at the real michael cohen. laura is still here with us. michael, thank you for joining the table tonight. you just wrote a piece and. >> i want to quote a bit. >> from it. it's about what's happening unfolding right now in los angeles. you say this isn't tough on crime. this is

political theater starring soldiers in camo and directed by a man who knows deep down that his grasp on power relies on >> i wrote it at.. >> 430 this. >> morning, by. is prior to, of course, all of this crazy. >> but here's my. >> take on it. >> why is. >> it that this is. >> happening right now? >> what's the reason that donald trump put out these. 2000 national guardsmen? it's not because he's concerned about signs. it's not concerning. >> you know. >> remember what they had. >> during trump's. >> rallies? mass deportation. >> now. >> same sort of signs that. >> we have here. it's to distract you and. >> the. >> rest of the media from. >> what's going on. >> with the fights with elon musk, where. >> he was losing. >> that fight where. 180 million people. >> were following. >> elon musk. >> this is just. >> a sideshow. >> this is reality tv. >> reality tv. >> he's the. >> best at it. >> i don't know, it seems like

he's been if it's just reality tv, it's hurting a lot of lives and it's been doing so. >> which. >> he does in several months. no. >> he doesn't care about this doesn't mean anything. >> to him. >> he actually. wants to see people clashing with police. >> so in. >> that way he can justify this action. >> but this is all distraction. >> and we. >> know what trump. >> there's two. >> things that he's great at. >> distraction and deflection. >> you also argue in this piece that he views protest criticism as treason. is that serious? >> yeah. >> it's treason to him. he doesn't care. about anything. >> other than you following. >> his directives. and his directive is he needs to show. the american people that when he said. >> that he. >> wants mass deportations, he needs his numbers. he wasn't getting the numbers. >> so what does. >> he do? he creates a scenario like this. >> there was. >> no. >> reason to. >> deploy the national guard. police could. >> have handled it. >> they didn't need to show up in riot gear to home depot. all

of this again, it's the it's theater. >> yeah. but okay. my view on this is that he's been looking for an excuse to have a confrontation, not independent of the fight with elon musk. which actually brings me to a question that i have for laura, which is how should the public be responding when they see, for example, masked armed men show up without badges, without warrants, without identifying themselves, and take someone off the streets when they see something that looks like it might be extralegal or that it's unclear what's actually going on there. what should people be doing, particularly us citizens, to not give in, not take donald trump's bait and not give him an excuse, essentially to escalate further? >> it is extremely important for those who have legal status, particularly us citizens, to be upstanders in that moment. although it might be terrifying to watch, i ask that us citizens who are witnessing these moments

remain calm. video and tape everything that is happening. try to get identifying details for the officers, for the vehicles of the location where a raid is taking place. then us citizens or other bystanders can report that information to ice hotlines, ice reporting hotlines that let community members know where an ice raid has happened. the most important information is details, not something that will unnecessarily stoke fear. not something that might be a rumor, but grounded information. and the video footage is really important. we saw that in rooms as turk's arrest, the footage of her arrest, the footage of her expressing her fear at being targeted by unknown masked agents spread worldwide and raised concerns about what is happening in the us and what is the state of our democracy. >> is that going to be the only

way to push back then, if he is programing this like it's a reality television show? does that then mean that there has to be counter-programming images, ways of humanizing people, telling their stories, showing an alternative perspective or literal angle camera angle on a moment? is that the responsibility that falls on us now? >> yes, absolutely. it is so important for the american public to understand how these immigration enforcement actions are affecting babies, toddlers, children, families, ordinary people who contribute to every aspect of american life. and understanding this, building empathy for the people whose lives are being completely destroyed might give those who those of us who care about what's happening a chance at the midterm elections. >> all right. >> just stay. >> with us for one second. i do want to cross back over to jacob soboroff. just because we're seeing these pictures. live pictures of the 101. jacob, you're familiar with the terrain there and obviously the

importance of that highway. talk to us a little bit about these images. i believe the highway now has been shut and just within the last couple of minutes, we've also gotten a post from gavin newsom, who wrote that he has formally requested the trump administration to rescind their unlawful deployment of troops in los angeles county and return them to my command. we didn't have a problem until trump got involved. this is a serious breach of state sovereignty, inflaming tensions while pulling resources from where they're actually needed. rescind the order. return control to california. >> you're correct eamon. those pictures that we are looking at as governor newsom issues, this statement is the 101 freeway. as the chopper here from knbc pans out. that is the highway that runs straight through the middle of downtown los angeles. it is a main. an artery might be an understatement. it is one of the main freeways here in los angeles, and what you're watching is not an unfamiliar

tactic to people who watch the local news here to both protest and celebrations in los angeles when the dodgers won the world series, when the lakers have won the championship during other protests against law enforcement or other types of civil actions in los angeles, people have made their way down those on ramps from the overhang where you're seeing at the top of your screen down to the freeway to stop traffic on the 101. and that is what we're watching play out right now. part of the reason i think that you're seeing people down on the freeway, of course, is to draw attention. but also, there was that pretty significant line of los angeles police department officers that are dressed in that tactical riot gear up in the top left portion of your screen, and they're blocking alameda street. there's many black and white los angeles police department vehicles you can see there, and where those black and whites are. at the top left of your screen is about where the entrance to the metropolitan detention center is. it's where

i was. if you were watching all in with chris hayes on friday night as that protest rounded that corner and headed into downtown los angeles, it's also where exactly where those black and whites are. there is a roll up gate metal gate that ice uses to bring people in and out of the detention center. there again, that building is known as the metropolitan detention center. it's a federal facility run by the bureau of prisons. but ice will and has been known to detain people that are picked up in its operations there. so what you're seeing is both the metropolitan detention center, a very heavy police presence by the los angeles police department, because the mdc is in the city of los angeles. so it's their jurisdiction. and then the protesters, some of whom i assume had been up by the mdc, now forced out because of that line that's set by the lapd. and they have moved down onto the freeway, which if you've ever been to l.a, you know, that's going to be one heck of a traffic jam. but it's also a dangerous situation, in

all seriousness, because those people are down there and there are a lot of people in cars trying to get to wherever they're going. on this sunday afternoon in los angeles. >> jacob, let me ask you a tactical question. based on the operations that have happened in other cities and what we're seeing here, tom homan told you last night, i believe it was that, you know, enforcement operations in los angeles are going to continue. correct me if i'm wrong. what we've seen in other cities is when situations begin to heat up, the ice raids actually slow down and they move on to another city. i mean, this started a couple of months ago where it was pretty intense. in chicago. you mentioned the raid in nashville. we're seeing it now in los angeles. but realistically, from a tactical point of view, how can an ice operation in a city like los angeles continue when sentiments and tensions are running this high and you have one of the major freeways disrupted? >> in secret, is the answer? amen. and that's what mayor bass told me when i spoke to her on the phone earlier. you know, i asked her if she had any understanding or or acknowledgment or heads up about

the operations that ice had conducted over the course of the last couple of days. she didn't, nor did governor newsom's office when i was speaking to them yesterday, around the time that i inter the local law enforcement in these cities, at least in los angeles, the lapd, who you're looking at on your screen, and the los angeles county sheriff's department, the police, is the much larger los angeles county. la city has got 4 million people. the county's got ten. the city sits within the county, and the sheriff's department polices a lot of the unincorporated cities. there's many cities, i think 88, in l.a. county, but there's a lot of unincorporated parts of los angeles county as well. neither the sheriff's department nor lapd participates in those immigration enforcement raids. so if they were to continue, this is just an educated guess. my guess is that they would happen without the knowledge of the local law enforcement and move forward in areas that, as

you said, probably are not filled with with protesters. what is in the area of these protesters, though, is the national guard that has been deployed to protect that metropolitan detention center because ice is inside that building. one other thing i just want to point out, i think that i saw amen. the california highway patrol, they have their own set of black and whites. they're in charge, their jurisdiction, and they are under the direction of the governor. is the highways that go through california. and so if you do see a police presence down there on the 101, most likely that would be the highway patrol. while the lapd maintains their positions up above. and from my vantage point right now, again, we have no reason to call this a riot. we have no reason to call this violent. many of these protesters started peacefully earlier today in mariachi plaza in boyle heights. the historic center of immigrant life in los angeles, where at one point it was a japanese american community, a jewish american community. and today it's known

for being a largely the center of mexican american culture in los angeles. as sunset boulevard turns into cesar chavez boulevard and stretches towards east los angeles, this is a this is a moment in los angeles history. and in 2005, 2006, we had half a million people on the streets in what was called the grand marcha, in support of comprehensive immigration reform during the first bush administration. by no means are these protests as large. we've seen large protests in support of immigrants rights in los angeles before, but there's something about this moment that feels like it's the next chapter in the history of that story that is sort of unfolding before our eyes. >> jacob. thank you. our panel is going to stick around. we're going to continue to track the going to continue to track the breaking news out of los angeles [coughing] copd isn't pretty. from the struggle to breathe... to getting stopped in your tracks. bye, grandma. ♪♪

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protesters continue to gather. police have stopped traffic on a major freeway there. as the situation remains tense. we're going to keep an eye on that. but let's continue the conversation here with both michael and laura. michael, let me ask you this question. since this is at the nexus of politics and law, what should the democratic mayor of california, of los angeles and the democratic governor of california should be doing right now? you have a president who i think we can all agree to some extent, is agitating the situation. he's escalating this situation. he's as governor newsom has said he's goading these protesters because he wants an excuse to invoke or escalate even more the insurrection act or even deploy the military. what should they be doing? >> de-escalate. do the exact opposite of what. trump wants. tell the. >> protesters. >> either get. >> off the highways, go to an area that doesn't affect the general. >> public. >> protest 100%. >> protest. >> but don't give.

>> trump what he wants. this. >> i'm telling you, is all. >> about the. >> big, beautiful bill. >> all he. >> wants to do is. >> distract you from. >> the fact that. elon musk. >> has. >> been attacking the big. >> beautiful bill. >> that he feels he. >> was losing. >> control over the argument. and that's. >> why they're. >> doing. exactly. >> that's why trump is escalating this. >> laura, what do you think i want to sorry. i just want to give you a chance to respond as well. and whether you agree with i mean, what should the democratic officials. the anger is real and the people are hurt and the communities are being torn apart. i'm not even sure they're seeing this from a political calculation as much as it is a purely emotional and raw right. >> people want to register their peaceful political dissent. they want the trump administration and the american public to know that what the administration is doing to people and communities in los angeles is absolutely unacceptable. it's a really important example of the people taking to the streets and pushing back against the worst excesses of the trump

administration. >> so, laura, a related question about all of this, which is that tom homan has said, including to our colleague jacob soboroff, that ice is only there to go after criminals and that there are collaterals who might get swept up in these raids. is that borne out by the data that we've seen so far? >> absolutely not. so the trump administration did at first those who they said posed a threat to national security. but what we've seen in recent weeks is all people who are undocumented or who, for whatever reason, have lost their lawful status in the united states, are targets. this includes individuals. this includes families. this includes children, babies, toddlers. everyone is now a target. this is why families are being picked up in immigration court. this is

not a targeted operation that is solely based and focused on those who have criminal convictions. >> and michael, can. >> i. >> ask. >> you about rhetoric, though, here to we talked about this as a team before the show began tonight. but we're starting to hear administration officials use words like insurrectionists to describe what we're seeing here. that word in particular from an administration that has downplayed what happened on january 6th, i think hits people hard at home. then they use words like invasion, all while we're also supposed to celebrate the fact that the border is more secure than ever. crossings are down. how do his supporters hold diametrically opposed pieces of information in their head, like the cognitive dissonance? how does it function? and then also, what do you make of the use of these words by these people that you know? >> sure. >> i mean, these. >> words are. >> targeted words. >> and they're basically being used by the trump.